Chinese motorcycles are coming, whether or not anyone is ready for them. Those soft sales figures many manufacturers have been reporting may be a sign of things to come if the Chinese have their way. China offers an enormous market for anything you might be selling but tariffs on imported goods make selling into that market extremely challenging if not impossible. The potential size is what keeps drawing attention from companies around the world but the Chinese would rather produce their own products and production often begins with copying. There has been an endless stream of companies suing the Chinese for outright piracy, in the case of software, to trademark infringement and copying of designs. Honda, Toyota and General Motors have all sued Chinese companies for blatant product copies that are sold under Chinese brand names with logos designed to look like the originals. They even sell a BMW clone, too, along the lines of the Ural. Companies at the Indianapolis dealer show have mentioned how it’s common to see Chinese visitors snapping loads of pictures at every product display, I guess it’s a way of compressing the time from design to production, no design needed, just copy.
The major Chinese motorcycle company is Zongshen, a huge operation that annually turns out 1,000,000 motorcycles and 2,000,000 motorcycle engines, among other products. The motorcycles are 250cc and smaller, reflecting the motorcycles used in China, but they are planning to move into larger displacement categories with a 1000cc four cylinder engine and that’s where the rest of the world needs to be ready. If that production is aimed at export, low cost motorcycles will be flooding the market. That may be good for riders looking for cheap transportation but it looks bad for established motorcycle companies.

There's a cheap Korean motorcycle company in the US already, so it should be no shock to others when the Chinese motorcycles arrive.

But the bikes from China will be well under Hyosong's current pricing!
If Zongshen comes out with the inline 4 1000cc or even a inline 600cc sport bike Hyosong's V-twin copy of the Suzuki 650 v-twin will be in big trouble. Hyosong does have a 1000 v twin coming I think but the market is more inline then V for sport bikes.

There's no such thing as an "affordable" bike in the US market, even the Korean brand is not exactly low priced. The Japanese bikes are mid to high range, American and Europe bikes are all high end. The "affordable" segment is completely abandoned.

If Chinese bikes can come in and fill in this segment, it would be great for consumers - I may even get one, for I've always wanted one to ride once in a blue moon, so it has to be very affordable.

(The quality and reliability must be there though, NO ONE wants a piece of junk.)

:shrug: I don't know how much cheeper you can go but at $1974 msrp for the GS200 in stock at a dealer in WV I called . I'm thinking around $1600 plus tax or less would buy it! That compared to $2995 plus tax for a EX250 ninja is heading quickly in the right direction.........


Now if they can hit the market at $5k with a inline 4 Sportbike....I'm thinking....BIG NUMBERS $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$!

How about $1495 retail for one of these?

do you have a link to this bike?
thanks
larry

Try this:


http://www.zongsheninternational.com/webtest/

How about $1495 retail for one of these?
That's what I'm talking about!
When will it be available in the US? Is it any good? Will never sell if it's not up to par with the competition...

That's what I'm talking about!
When will it be available in the US? Is it any good? Will never sell if it's not up to par with the competition...


Go take a hard look at the GS200 for a hun or two more!

You get what you pay for (.)

If you want Japanese quality for half the price ....I sorry to say your off base big time....the way to look at it is your buying a late 70's Japanese bike with modern attire! for half what it costs to buy Top shielf Japanese current!



Here's a good place to ask your question on quality! chinesebikeforum.com

You cannot only talk about prices and quality. The most important issue the Chinese manufacturers need to deal with to actually play in the big league is "economy of scale". Hence, sorting out the logistics, sales/distribution network, parts stock and delivery, vehicles stocks and delivery, actual warranties that cover labor costs in developed markets etc. That's where the biggest hurdle lies and the Chinese are many years away from reaching this stage.

I see on ebay someone selling Lifan bike, and it is street leagal in some states, but not in others. so, technically you can ride a Lifan bike in USA already

You cannot only talk about prices and quality. The most important issue the Chinese manufacturers need to deal with to actually play in the big league is "economy of scale". Hence, sorting out the logistics, sales/distribution network, parts stock and delivery, vehicles stocks and delivery, actual warranties that cover labor costs in developed markets etc. That's where the biggest hurdle lies and the Chinese are many years away from reaching this stage.


I disagree with some of what your saying here.....sure full warranties must be in place , but I feel alot of current multibike franchise owners here in the states would jump on the some of the current offerings from the manufacturing companies from China, if some of these Chinese manufactures would spend the money on a few good state side rep's to visit them(.)


Here in the States ..."People Sell Metal to People(.)"....the way I see it all you need to do is get 10 plus key dealers on both coast's to buy in, even if you have to give the bikes away, and in a short time the rest will be HISTORY$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

For this all to really work out though, the Chinese need at least have a 600cc bike in there line up to really make it! In this point is where the time frame of at least a few years may come in.

Honda in Canada is selling a 125cc Sport Bike for under $ 4,000 this includes an helmet, jacket, boots everything one would need to start riding a bike.

CF Moto sells a 250cc automatic transmission bike for $ 4,500, good looking bike for someone that is looking for an automatic transmission. An entry level 250cc bike from Honda - Yamaha - Suzuki is less than $ 4,000 in Canada.

A used Honda VT750 Shadow in excellent condition is approximately $ 6,500, and Hondas have a reputation of reliability.

There is a vast choice of 50cc scooters for less than $ 2,000 these scooters do approximately 80 to 90 KPH which might work in the dowtown core, but not in suburbia.

As Shawoom mentions, distribution, service, warranty, is very important, not just sending bikes over in a container to an importer that bases the "value proposition" solely on price. That game works better with ATV's than bikes.

I was driving in a rural town in Michigan and stopped at a gas station - they are selling Zhong Shen scooters for $1K USD a piece! They look kinda toy like, the wielding on the chrome trim bars could be better too.

I don't know much about scooters, but is $1K USD a good price? I've seen way cheaper ones on the ads from auto parts dealers such as Pep Boys...

Which countries does China export motorbikes to ?? And any figures ?? Any comments, experience, post them here please.

Where is the Chinese motorbikes manufacturers' positions now in reference to the Japanese makers ?? 60s?? 70s or 80s ?? Please comment

Thank you :)

I disagree with some of what your saying here.....sure full warranties must be in place , but I feel alot of current multibike franchise owners here in the states would jump on the some of the current offerings from the manufacturing companies from China, if some of these Chinese manufactures would spend the money on a few good state side rep's to visit them(.)


Here in the States ..."People Sell Metal to People(.)"....the way I see it all you need to do is get 10 plus key dealers on both coast's to buy in, even if you have to give the bikes away, and in a short time the rest will be HISTORY$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

For this all to really work out though, the Chinese need at least have a 600cc bike in there line up to really make it! In this point is where the time frame of at least a few years may come in.

I see this idea of yours as rather simplistic and I am talking from personal experience. 1. There is NO brand equity 2. The Chinese are not investing anything - hard enough to get money from them in the car business, let alone in motorcycles/scooters 3. After-sales and service is in shambles. 4. Only very large corporations can benchmark such a project especially in the US 5. The displacement of the engines is the least of all issues to tackle.

Honda in Canada is selling a 125cc Sport Bike for under $ 4,000 this includes an helmet, jacket, boots everything one would need to start riding a bike.

CF Moto sells a 250cc automatic transmission bike for $ 4,500, good looking bike for someone that is looking for an automatic transmission. An entry level 250cc bike from Honda - Yamaha - Suzuki is less than $ 4,000 in Canada.

A used Honda VT750 Shadow in excellent condition is approximately $ 6,500, and Hondas have a reputation of reliability.

There is a vast choice of 50cc scooters for less than $ 2,000 these scooters do approximately 80 to 90 KPH which might work in the dowtown core, but not in suburbia.

As Shawoom mentions, distribution, service, warranty, is very important, not just sending bikes over in a container to an importer that bases the "value proposition" solely on price. That game works better with ATV's than bikes.

A few corrections there mate:
1. CF Moto is basically a Taiwanese company that manufacturers in China while all the technology and quality is from Taiwan.
2. No 50cc scooter gets to 80-90km/h. 2 stroke 50cc get to top speed of 70-75km/h, 4 stroke to 55-60km/h.
3. What I mentioned also includes ATV's as well as Go-Karts and any motorised vehicle for that matter. Consumers want to be certain that if they spend a few thousand bucks on a vehicle, at least they can rely on solid warranty, servicing, spare parts supply etc. Since ATV's are generally even more expensive than scooters, the rule applies even stronger.

Where is the Chinese motorbikes manufacturers' positions now in reference to the Japanese makers ?? 60s?? 70s or 80s ?? Please comment

Thank you :)

Rather than following the footpaths of the Japanese, I would say the Chinese are following those of the Taiwanese (especially those of KYMCO and Sanyang or SYM). In this regard, they are not that far behind. I would estimate they are falling only 5-6 years behind the Taiwanese makers, especially in scooters and ATV's.

Thanks for your input, and clarifying the origins of CFMoto.

Up until Chinese manufacturers of Motorcycles - Scooters - ATV do not establish their own presence in the North American market, and persist or prefer to do it through "importer / distributors" it will be a long "uphill" effort to gain market position and improved credibility.

They have initial success since most "motorsport" dealers sell several brands of the same product.

Will the typical North American customers buy Honda - Yamaha - Kawasaki - Suzuki - Kymco?

Consumers want a reliable product, with excellent support as you mention.

I see this idea of yours as rather simplistic and I am talking from personal experience. 1. There is NO brand equity 2. The Chinese are not investing anything - hard enough to get money from them in the car business, let alone in motorcycles/scooters 3. After-sales and service is in shambles. 4. Only very large corporations can benchmark such a project especially in the US 5. The displacement of the engines is the least of all issues to tackle.


I've been in sales for 28 years and the last 18 in the car business......25 years riding and purchacing bikes all in the target market that your the expert in!


It's hard to break into the US market with a 250cc or less bike because people don't really want one so they probably will not want to read about one...so the people that write for the magazines will not write about them......has this been :mad: simplistic enough yet!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The Korean's are only a couple years ahead of the Chinese in my market!
the only offering above 250cc is a v-twin copy of a Suzuki 650cc...but the savings is only about $700 over the Suzuki and $100 more for a Kawasaki! A inline 4 600cc's or bigger from China would cost less then Korea's V-Twin and make it to all the mag's and sell (.)

:nono: Don't go after Hyosong though......just pass them up and kick Japan's @ss at there own game!


http://www.hyosungmotorsusa.com/images/product/popup/i_GT650R.jpg


2007 Current Pricing.....

Inline 4's.....
Honda CBR600rr $9499
Kawasaki ZZR600 $7299
Suzuki GXSR600 $8899
Yamaha YZF-R6 $9299
Yamaha YZF-R6S $8299
Suzuki GSX650 $6999
V-2's.....
Hyosung GT650R $6299
Kawasaki Ninja 650 $6399
Suzuki sv650s $6499


Come in at $5999 msrp or less in the US with a 600cc inline 4 with about 100 hp and you can own the market!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

And its a big market!!!!!!!
Two-wheeler sales moves up 11.42% 1st May, 2007

Total two-wheeler sales has gone up to 7.86 million units in 2006-07, up 11.42% from 7.05 million last year.
Hero Honda Motors Ltd, the largest motorcycle-maker of the world, maintains its market share at 41.35% market share in 2006-07, almost similar to previous year at 41.24%.
Bajaj Auto Ltd continues to rank second with 26.70% market share, TVS Motor Company Ltd at third position with 18.14% market share.Motorcycle Sales Statistics - 2005

Motorcycle and Scooter Sales Top 1 Million
by Rick K. for webBikeWorld
The total estimated U.S. motorcycle sales numbers for 2005 have recently been made available by the Motorcycle Industry Council, and I've compiled some of the data in a series of graphs (below).
Sales of motorcycles (including street, off-road and dual-purpose) and scooters totaled 1,088,994 in 2005, up from 965,399 in 2004, a rise of 4.5%. Overall sales have been on a gradual increase since 1992 (see chart (http://www.webbikeworld.com/Motorcycle-news/motorcycle-sales-growth.htm)).
webBikeWorld visitor "T.S." reminded us that the numbers shown below only include MIC members, so the actual numbers of motorcycles, scooters and ATVs sold in the U.S.A. is probably higher.
That's especially so for scooters; there were dozens of Chinese and Asian scooter manufacturers displaying their products at the recent 2005 Powersports Dealer Expo (http://www.webbikeworld.com/motorcycle-accessories/2006/), and as far as I can tell, their sales totals are not included here.
That being said, there were a few surprises in these numbers, at least for me. The scooter market is apparently thriving, probably helped along by the increasing price of fuel. Although the overall number of scooters sold is still a fraction of street bike sales (about 8.8% in 2005), scooter sales nevertheless rose 17.45% to 56,899 in 2005 from 48,445 in 2004.

...........One more fact to answer "Why a inline 4 cylinder?".........

For those who didn't personally experience the revolution that Honda launched with the 1969 CB750, it's difficult to fully comprehend the impact of this landmark motorcycle (http://www.sportrider.com/bikes/2004/146_04_honda_cbr_engine_history/#). In 1969 Honda had been in America for only 10 years, and at that time European bikes--especially British--defined the parameters of high performance. In one deft move, Honda instantly elevated the entire motorcycle industry to a new and higher plane. Suddenly, the heretofore contradictory elements of jaw-dropping performance, engineering sophistication and mechanical reliability would become interwoven into a seamless whole, thanks to the CB750K0.
Here was modern motorcycling's first large inline four-cylinder production bike, a SOHC 736cc marvel of engineering that introduced power and civility as flip sides of the same coin. Just as significant was the CB750's disc brake, the very first to be fitted on a production motorcycle, plus a new level of all-around competence. With more than 400,000 CB750s sold during its nine-year life, this bike single-handedly shifted the center of the high-performance motorcycling world from England to Japan and ushered in a whole new level of expectation on the part of discerning motorcyclists.

http://www.jsae.or.jp/autotech/large/4-16-1.jpg

Dude, When did Suzuki GSX650F became a V-Twin?


V-2's.....
Hyosung GT650R $6299
Kawasaki Ninja 650 $6399
Suzuki GSX650F $6999


Were you thinking about the SV-650? haha

One of many reasons of why 250cc Bikes won't "take-off" in NA or Europe is that they are somewhat not suitable for Highway conditions. (Poor acceleration + low top speed.)

+ other riders will point and laugh at you on your 250cc "moped".. (I laugh at people riding anything smaller then 600cc bikes in their face and then say, dude, when are you going to grow up and get a real bike? However, I do cut some slacks for beginners.)

Dude, When did Suzuki GSX650F became a V-Twin?



Were you thinking about the SV-650? haha



:eek: My bad .......good catch! :thumb:

Hi,
Many people are on the look for the bikes.They are doing this because they are very reliable and are very cost effective.Also they are easily available and comes in different models.If it all comes in good engine cc then it will be good.

Good statistic

This is a good thing they should introduce the bike as there bikes good and there rates are also less than other.