CARS. CHINESE COPY 'PANDA'. FIAT CONSIDERING LAWSUIT
(AGI) - Turin, Dec.12 - Fiat is considering to "take legal actions" against Chinese company 'Great Wall', which presented the 'Peri', a copy of the Fiat Panda, at the Bologna Motor Show. The Chinese model is expected to be marketed in Europe by mid 2007. "Great Wall" is already present in Italy, with 90 dealers, which should increase to 110 by 1H 2007.

Not surprised, I wonder if Toyota will sue GWM as well for the Cool Bear & Florid copies :D

lol

everyone try searching for the term " PERI " in GOOGLE Image search , some DISTURBING images will appear :D

EDIT : SERIOUSLY DISTURBING

That a great news... i really hope that the lawsuit works...

Is time that China begin to develop new designs.

More great pictures -> autochiny.pl. Sorry, but can't give the source link, because I need 10 posts first.

first of all PERI WASN'T AT BOLOGNA AUTO SHOW!!!!!!

second...only thing which peri have from fiat is interior,and i am imfored that fiat want to sue them because of back doors! also the press are so stupid that they write that model peri is already selling in china????

Though I don't condone GWM copying Fiat and Toyota, as long as they have not sold 1, they would not lose in a lawsuit.

Do the right thing, redesign them. It's shameful to say the least.

on the car show in bejing they told that they are still concept cars,and i think that after all then what did the press did to them GWM will change something

Chinese automaker Great Wall Motor Co. Ltd. has denied its new subcompact car the Peri is copied from FIAT designs, adding that it doesn't fear a lawsuit, the Oriental Morning Post reported on Friday.

The Italian auto giant Fiat is considering legal action against the Hebei-based company, alleging the Peri, which debuted in the Beijing Auto Show in November, resembles the Fiat Panda.

"We never copy car designs from other automakers. It took two years for our own design team to develop the Peri", Shang Yugui, head of Great Wall Motor's publicity department, was quoted as saying.

Shang says his company has its own moulds and technical patents for its products.

The report cited an anonymous analyst saying Fiat is worried because Great Wall Motor is expected to launch the Peri in European markets soon after the Peri is launched in China in the first half of 2007.

Great Wall Motor is not the first Chinese automaker to be involved in a copyright dispute with foreign companies.

In 2003, General Motors Corp. sued the Anhui-based Chery Automobile Co. Ltd. over its subcompact QQ which is strikingly similar to GM's Spark. The two companies settled out of court.

Toyota Motor Corp. also accused the Zhejiang-based Geely Group for copying the Japanese company's logo. Toyota lost its suit against Geely.

Honda Motor Co. complained at last month's auto show that Shenyang Polarsun Automobile Co. Ltd. showcased a sport-utility vehicle with the front bumper resembling that of the Honda CR-V. Honda has yet taken legal action.

The privately-owned Great Wall Motor Co., Ltd., originally a SUV and pick-up producer, unveiled three new models in November; the Peri, Florid and Coolbear - in the hope of grabbing a slice of the compact car market.

The company is one of the few Chinese automakers that develops and produces its own models rather than manufacturing foreign brands under licence.

Source: Xinhua

fiat can do nothing to great wall!

The proportions are those of the Fiat Panda, I don't need even to measure it. Furthermore, according to the press, the doors of the Peri are perfectly fitting into Panda. By making a restyling to the nose and tale, does not mean that the car is not a complete knock off :mad:

In order to avoid this mess i suggest to GWM that they should change the design elements of some thier new concept cars...

Well Fiat named their car 'Panda' after the Chinese Bear, so China have the right to get even:D

lol

everyone try searching for the term " PERI " in GOOGLE Image search , some DISTURBING images will appear :D

EDIT : SERIOUSLY DISTURBING

VERIFIED, very true:eek: :iagree:

first of all PERI WASN'T AT BOLOGNA AUTO SHOW!!!!!!

second...only thing which peri have from fiat is interior,and i am imfored that fiat want to sue them because of back doors! also the press are so stupid that they write that model peri is already selling in china????

what are you BLIND ? or something !
the car is an identical copy of the PANDA ! LOOK AT THE PICTURES

lol

everyone try searching for the term " PERI " in GOOGLE Image search , some DISTURBING images will appear :D

EDIT : SERIOUSLY DISTURBING

:bashpc:

"We never copy car designs from other automakers. It took two years for our own design team to develop the Peri", Shang Yugui, head of Great Wall Motor's publicity department, was quoted as saying.

now that is a big lie:mad: the berk

Furthermore, according to the press, the doors of the Peri are perfectly fitting into Panda. By making a restyling to the nose and tale, does not mean that the car is not a complete knock off

exactly, there u go

I hate to admit it, but Peri is clearly a copy of Fiat Panda II. Rear part of the car imitates Nissan Note.

Can Fiat really sue them though? As long as they don't sell the car in Italy, I don't see how they could do it.

what are you BLIND ? or something !
the car is an identical copy of the PANDA ! LOOK AT THE PICTURES

front of peri...hood,lights??? they are copy??? for you nissan murano is copy of hover then! so kia opirus is copy of mercedes e class???
end of peri different glass??? lights on the roof????
fiat don't have any of that!
ok interior they fucked up,but you have only two vehicles in company,and any of them didn't have interior done
interior of peri at bejing show was empty,that's the reason why the glasses are black,also i don't see it in company,because peri is still CONCEPT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! READ CLEARY

C O N C E P T!!!

also for doors,fiat have the different sistem,i have the book and plans,fiat sistem is going from up to down...and in pery case the door are open just to pull the catch...so this is also just a stupid press release and some reporter who want to be smart and didn't see nothing

also the press relase from italian dealer:
In adjustment to what was conveyed today by some medias, press and TV, Eurasia Motor Company Spa as Great wall Motor Official Distributor in Italy communicates the following:
1) at the Motor Show in Bologna the following GW vehicles were introduced:
Pick up Wingle (national preview)
Cuv Hover diesel (national preview)
Cuv Hover Sport (special version for the Motor Show)
Hover limousine (European preview)
In contrast with what has been declared, reading at the list above it can be deducted that the City Car “Peri” was NOT exposed, it was introduced as a prototype at the Automobile Showroom in Beijing as world preview, with others Concept Cars. The picture published on the internet (e.g. http://www.tgfin.mediaset.it/) was taken at the Automobile Showroom in Beijing, where , furthermore, the expositive stall was very similar to the one in Bologna.
2)The vehicle quoted above, “Peri”, is NOT currently commercialized in any market. The launch is scheduled in China in Spring 2007 and in Italy some moths later.
3)The introduction strategy in Italy, and also in Europe, as for prices, versions, final design and time tables was NOT defined yet, it will be planned with the Chinese Brand during the next months.
Moreover we publish the pictures of the front part of the Chinese vehicle, obviously not inspired by the Italian City Car.
Any other official update will be available in this site as well as in the traditional media (Press and TV)

Microdelija, the point isn't that its exactly the same. Its that they still stole the platform, the body(minus a few details), and the interior.

micodelija, try all you want to defend GW, but it won't work. You have to wake up to reality. Hopefully, that will help you. 2 years is also a very short time in developing a car. A normal car undergoes about double that amount of development. They're just a bunch of liars.

still the cars are not in production...and they were presented as concept vehicles...until serius production we can talk about anything...we must wait for gwm to start sell them in china,personaly i also think that it's a step back for gwm...but they know the best...also they will see what that means if they plans to sell those vehicles here in europe

this whole company loses credibility to me ,

When chery was sued for the QQ , at least they did NOT denie the fact that it is a clone , they however sorted things with that whole daewoo/gm buy out thing , so for me at least , they kinda CLEANED thier hands ... ( altho still making the car is another issue ) .

But when a company , only known to a few countries outside china , DENIES the REPLICATION of one of the historical car makers on Earth ! and they even LIE worse and say it's from thier DESIGN Department and took them 2 years to DESGIN !! omg !!

It took them 2 YEARS to HACK FIATs servers and STEAL the design that is !!

Yes they could've of brought something close , like the Fiat Idea / Chanan Ideal , they are both diffrent , but they look similar , thats not an issue except maybe the stupid name it has .

even Chery when copied the Matiz , they altered a few stuff. . but this is getting really redicilous .

sell them in China ? Why ?
I hope is never see the light of production or at least not in that CONCEPT !

The proportions are those of the Fiat Panda, I don't need even to measure it. Furthermore, according to the press, the doors of the Peri are perfectly fitting into Panda. By making a restyling to the nose and tale, does not mean that the car is not a complete knock off :::

how they know that the peri door is perfectly fit to the panda door?
or they bring the door to the show and fit it on the spot?
as we know peri only a concept, don tell me that gw allow fiat to try
the door at their factory.
not logic ,right? so the press base on what to said that ?

dude , I dont care about the press

LOOK FOR URSELF :

http://gwm-by.at.tut.by/gw_peri_3_640.jpg this is your PERI !

THIS IS THE PANDA :
http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/rodrally2/panda5.jpg

HAH ? A BLIND MAN CAN SEE ITS A CLONE ! they added a few useless stuff but ITS STILL A COPY ! ( designed by our Design department my arse ! )

great wall should be punished for plagarism and pay££ to Fiat. We know Imitation is the Sincerest form of Flattery, but this is taking the piss. Shame on Great wall

just you wait , and the next geely coupe will be a Skyline clone :D

looks maybee, but definately not in engineering terms:D

great wall should be punished for plagarism and pay££ to Fiat. We know Imitation is the Sincerest form of Flattery, but this is taking the piss. Shame on Great wall

for what they must pay??? for something that isn't in production yet??? GWM still don't sell any of passenger vehicles in chinese market because they are don't even finished yet,they was presented as concept vehicles before final production...so it's silly to talk about copying or plagiasim or something alse..because the cars are still NOT IN PRODUCTION!

doesnt matter ,juts imagine how would you feel corssing a street with 10 skylines next to you :D yes they wont race you but yes ur car will be not recognized anymore :D

front of peri...hood,lights??? they are copy??? for you nissan murano is copy of hover then! so kia opirus is copy of mercedes e class???
end of peri different glass??? lights on the roof????
fiat don't have any of that!
ok interior they fucked up,but you have only two vehicles in company,and any of them didn't have interior done
interior of peri at bejing show was empty,that's the reason why the glasses are black,also i don't see it in company,because peri is still CONCEPT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! READ CLEARY

C O N C E P T!!!

Mister... you don't understand any of the main laws about intelectual property. Even when this is a concept car, even when GWM didn't sell any Peri ever... Is a theft. The design of the body es internationally registred by Fiat but the laws about copying are still in diapers... and allows some little differences so a design could not be claimed as a copy.

Any way... yo don't have to be a genius no see that the Body and interior is a Fiat Panda... the front take elements of the Mitsubishi Outlander and the Rear is just a copy of the Nissan Note...

And this is not an isolated copy by the people of GWM... The Hover is clearly a Isuzu Axiom, the Wingle is a D-Max with the front of a VW prototype... other truck is a copy of the Toyota Hi-Lux... the other "concepts"... copies of the Toyota Ist (with the front of a new yaris) and a Scion Xb...

There is a famous quote that says... "there's no worse blind, that those which didn't want to see..." ;)

THIS IS THE FRUIT OF THOUSANDS OF HOURS OF WORK OF THE GWM DESIGNERS TEAM...

THE MASTER RECIPY :D :D

FIRST... WE TOOK THE BODY OF A FIAT PANDA...

http://www.mykonosrentacar.com/_img/car-models/fiat-panda.jpg

IN THE FRONT... A BIT OF THE MITSUBISHI OUTLANDER...

http://www.cars.com/features/mvp/mitsubishi/outlander/images/angle3.jpg

then... we decide to keep the center body of the Panda...

http://img.autohome.com.cn/upload/spec/2667/u_2667422271425.jpg

but in the rear... a little bit of a Nissan Note...

http://www.motorpasion.com/archivos/images/nissan_note2.jpg

just check... pure chinese design :D

http://img.autohome.com.cn/upload/spec/2667/u_2667508357574.jpg

and finally the interior of the panda... but to make everybody believe that is a unique design, we put the steering wheel of a Toyota jajajajajajja

http://www.index.hr/images2/new_Yaris_int_V.jpg

http://i102.photobucket.com/albums/m118/rodrally2/panda5.jpg

AND WHAT DO WE HAVE???????

http://img.autohome.com.cn/upload/spec/2667/u_2667539014735.jpg

http://gwm-by.at.tut.by/gw_peri_3_640.jpg

i like how the GWM has a two tone seating interior, yellow and grey looks nice!

like it or not Mjdoneal , GWM LIES WHEN THEY SAY THEY SPENT 2 YEARS DESIGNING IT ! IT TOOK ME 2 MINUTES TO REALIZE WHERE THEY "CLONED" IT FROM .

AND U SAY ITS A CONCEPT ! I BET YOU ! Come back in 1 year or less when they produce it , and it will REMAIN THE SAME.

What about the Scion CLONEs / YARRIS CLONES ? is that also a 2 YEARS DESIGNED CONCEPTS !

I like chinese Auto , I respect Chery , FAW and SAIC
The rest are just TOY MAKERS ... screw them .

ok just to ask you one thing...first of all the cars aren't at the production at all,so we can argue for the interior as we can...but on the car show in bejing the car didn't have fitted in the interior,that the reason why the mirrors are black,like many other cars of bejing car show

now the pictures:
http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/2069/slikeex8.jpg
ok...first of all the lights,how they can be copy in they have different design and different dimension??? copy means identical! like some version of chinese mercedes smart! it have the same dimension,all! so mercedes sued them and won..and they stop the production!

the body:
Fiat - Gw Peri
Length 3538 mm - 3548
Width 1589 mm - 1580 (nissan 1690 mm)
Height 1540 mm - 1581

the dimensions aren't the same so isnt' a copy! and at the back from nissan,the tail light have little differences,and the note have more widht...so the whole back doors have different dimension which by any law can be the copy!

for hover...they buy the tehnology,the like they did for deer,the design and all!many manyfactures in china do that,they simpy buy techonology from other and make their own with little difereneces, and now GWM make they own engines and so,the new common rail engine 2.8 tc is based on isuzu engine,the same like GW 491 QME is based on old toyota engine but instead of carburator have multi point injection,and diesel have common rail!

mercedes also sued KIA for opirus model...and what did they get? nothing! and they can do apsolutly nothing because the front lights of kia look like on mercedes e class but they aren't the same dimension,and design so they can be copy of it!

I always ask myself why Chinese Desingers dont develop an own style. No creativity? Afraid of mistakes?
I think they will never get a good image before they stop that, and if anybody want to sell cars in the EU or US, image appears to be important.

Even worse than copying cardesign are the 1:1 remakes of many other products and technology. Most people in Germany associate this product piracy any time they hear about China. One week ago I read an article with the heading: "China, the worlds biggest Copyshop"

I dont think this is how China wants to be in people´s minds. :shrug2:

the AUTO BLID write that china the biggest copy shop,i have horrible expiriences with auto bild here in croatia,first of all when i call them to bejing auto show they told me that they aren't intrested in that...and then in that article they wrote...brilliance is a copy of BMW5...and the most intresting here is that BWM buy the stock of brilliance!!!! of course it's a BWW-a,even a germany enginerrs work in china!
then of great wall...how you can write for something if the vehicles are concept and aren't in production????
then for dongfeng truck which is made ecpecially for chinese military they sad it's a copy of HUMMER????
and so..and so...also in china you can export some vehicles which is idencital to another because of the chinese law! some companies don't have rights for export!

the AUTO BLID write that china the biggest copy shop,i have horrible expiriences with auto bild here in croatia
Yes, thats right. It was the Auto BILD. It is an populistic magazine, like all Products of the Springer Group, no question about that. But there is always some truth behind and it always reflects what the major Part of the People is thinking.
And whether in production or not, when I see a BYD with the backlights of the Mercedes-Benz A-class or another one with even the whole front of an CLK-class, I think the heading fits perfectly.
Would Renault or Volvo do something like that on their concept cars?

I always ask myself why Chinese designers don't develop an own style. No creativity? Afraid of mistakes?
I think they will never get a good image before they stop that, and if anybody want to sell cars in the EU or US, image appears to be important.

Even worse than copying car design are the 1:1 remakes of many other products and technology. Most people in Germany associate this product piracy any time they hear about China. One week ago I read an article with the heading: "China, the worlds biggest Copyshop"

I dont think this is how China wants to be in people´s minds. :shrug2:

When you are trying to understand Chinese manufacturing don't forget to factor in the advances in the internet and telecommunications and the influence of Bricklin.

I believe WuzhengNA has a good answer to your question on this post:

http://chinacarforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=9316#post9316

You are asking the wrong questions.

EVERYONE so far has missed something huge, monumental, just plain "can't see the forest thru the trees" reason why there is this perceived problem of copying designs.

I know exactly why it happens. I would venture to say that most individuals who have done SERIOUS trade with China also, at some point, had the light bulb go on in their head as to why.

I won't say the answer - It sounds bad - but I will say, without reservation, that it has nothing to do with money, morals, decency, or sense of fairness. I will also go even further by stating (my opinion only) that the average person in China just doesn't get what the big problem is, no matter how much we express our concerns.

Know why they copy stuff yet? Here is another hint...

In the US, if a consumer needs a 350 cubic inch engine, they have exactly one brand they can buy - A GM/Chevy 350. Each manufacturer has their own design. In China, I have the choice of maybe 4 designs for a good 6-cyl diesel, one being a R6105 model. Where do I go in China to to get that engine? Any one of maybe 500 companies that manufacture the exact same engine, using the exact same model number.

Korea / Japan have an enormously huge, forest-thru-the-trees difference with China. Guess what that is, and the light will go on over your head, too.

Excellent quote - worthy thought - exceptionally unrealistic.

The answer lies therein. As an American, I completely understand the above concept, and although "must" is too strong of a word, I most certainly do understand, and grasp "the difference between "Being Inspired By" and "A Straight Replica""

Upon re-reading this thread, your answers are contained in your own discussion. The following question has much more meaning than it shows on the surface;

Why WOULD Chinese automakers design their own vehicles?

Great Wall Motor has denied claims by Italian automaker Fiat, that its Peri model is a copy of Fiat's latest generation Panda. The launch for Great Wall's first passenger car has been postponed due to the legal tussle. Great Wall spokesman Shang Yugui, told sources that the allegations were false, and that RMB 300 million had been invested over R&D

Despite the legal threats from Fiat, Great Wall started selling Peri on Chinese market. Also unveiled was the new logo of the company.
http://www.sinaimg.cn/qc/photo/chjyjlxx/U1693P33T148D208880F2100DT20071029114158.JPG
http://www.sinaimg.cn/qc/photo/chjyjlxx/U1693P33T148D208868F2100DT20071029113348.JPG
http://www.sinaimg.cn/qc/photo/chjyjlxx/U1693P33T148D208857F2100DT20071029112846.JPG
http://www.sinaimg.cn/qc/photo/chjyjlxx/U1693P33T148D208848F2100DT20071029112828.JPG

GW also introduced production version of Cowry to the audience.
http://www.sinaimg.cn/qc/photo/chjyjlxx/U1693P33T148D208817F2100DT20071029111212.JPG
http://www.sinaimg.cn/qc/photo/chjyjlxx/U1693P33T148D208813F2100DT20071029111203.JPG
http://www.sinaimg.cn/qc/photo/chjyjlxx/U1693P33T148D208808F2100DT20071029111151.JPG
http://www.sinaimg.cn/qc/photo/chjyjlxx/U1693P33T148D208789F2100DT20071029101712.JPG

i liked more the old logo from great wall motors, the new one seems it was designed by a 5 years old

More pics of the Peri:

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/cn.autoblog.com/media/2007/10/jlxx.jpg
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/cn.autoblog.com/media/2007/10/jlns1.jpg
http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/cn.autoblog.com/media/2007/10/jl22.jpg

Source: http://cn.autoblog.com/2007/10/28/greatwall-minicar-release/

http://www.autoblog.com/media/2006/11/dsc09443.jpg
http://www.autoblog.com/media/2006/11/dsc09449.jpg
http://www.autoblog.com/media/2006/11/dsc09446.jpg
http://www.autoblog.com/media/2006/11/dsc09445.jpg

i liked more the old logo from great wall motors, the new one seems it was designed by a 5 years old
I second.

Ahhh...but those of us who never saw and liked the old emblem don't have to be weaned off of it now...all we have is this new one to enjoy.

Euro IV engine?
thats real good, they just need a good evaluation at a colision test to enter in europe

More Peri pics:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3/daewoo-chevrolet/car-20-14-39-11-175633760.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3/daewoo-chevrolet/car-20-14-39-10-119993006.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3/daewoo-chevrolet/car-21-0-9-35-248668584.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3/daewoo-chevrolet/car-20-14-39-15-356648118.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3/daewoo-chevrolet/car-20-14-39-15-119993006.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3/daewoo-chevrolet/car-20-14-39-16-904033939.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3/daewoo-chevrolet/car-20-14-39-34-301007365.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3/daewoo-chevrolet/car-20-14-39-34-478798033.jpg

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3/daewoo-chevrolet/car-20-14-39-33-994541118.jpg

Source: www.autohome.com.cn

More Cowry pics:

http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3/daewoo-chevrolet/car-20-14-41-36-356648118.jpg
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j3/daewoo-chevrolet/car-20-14-40-38-175633760.jpg

Source: www.autohome.com.cn

Great Wall strikes back. Chinese decided to file a lawsuit against Fiat.

Great Wall Motor to sue Fiat over commercial secrets spies

October 10, 2009
Great Wall Motor Co Ltd said on Friday that it prepared to filed a complaint to Fiat Auto SpA's headquarter in Italy, accusing the latter of stealing the Chinese automaker's commercial secrets.

Great Wall Motor told reporters that it had filed a complaint to Shijiazhuang Intermediate People's Court in June and had submitted evidence to prove that Fiat once instigated espionage to prowl into its research center and take photos of Peri small car that was still under developed.

Fiat's Shanghai office said it is not entitled to deal with such business allegations. Another Fiat executive based in China declined to comment.

In 2007 Fiat sued the Chinese automaker for copyright infringement on Peri model. An Italian court in the Fiat's hometown of Turin ruled against Great Wall at the time, agreeing the GWPeri was a Panda knockoff and banning sales of the vehicle throughout Europe. Later Fiat filed its claim to China's Shijiazhuang Intermediate People's Court, but the court dismissed the claim and ordered Fiat to pay the court $1,291 court fees in the end.
source: gasgoo.com

I would be surprised if Great Wall can pin anything on Fiat. I'm quite surprised by this latest move in this never ending battle between Fiat and Great Wall. I also think it is a bit pathetic, and even though it is just one model, both companies really need to move on and concentrate on their own business rather than sqabble like an old married couple.

Let's hope they can resolve this.:thumb:

Fiat fires back at Great Wall Motors’ spy claims
http://www.globaltimes.cn/attachment/091020/b6c512a567.jpg

Fiat responded Monday to Great Wall Motors' accusation that it infringed on commercial secrets, claiming that it never copied or imitated vehicles of Great Wall Motors and hasn't received any legal documents...http://autos.globaltimes.cn/china/2009-10/478480.html