Why is the response level so low on CCF?

[stilo]

I was wondering why the overall level of responses is so low on this forum? The statistics say that ten people are reading this section of the forum right now, but there were just two topics were opened yesterday. Just like the day before yesterday... Most comments and posts are still mady by Martin Krpan and a bunch of other supporters of this forum. Discussions are very slow and most topics consist of fotos publishes my Martin. And talking of his work here - you do a great job, Martin! Without your effort, this forum would be less intresting.

Just wanted to ask openly, why the response level is so low. My intention was not to offense anyone and i picked my words advisedly. So, guys, what are your ideas on this?!

[martin_krpan]

Thanks stilo.

Unfortunately the truth is there is not much happening at forum lately. There are not not many active members right now. If you scroll down and check current active members you will find out that most of them are bots.

It seems people from English speaking countries are not really in Chinese car industry. Chinese cars are not present in Europe and USA at the moment (at least in large scale that is). Maybe in few years when Chinese companies expand to foreign markets the situation will change to better.

Mamy members are also turned away because they don't get answers to the questions they are looking for. And why don't they geat answers? Because specifications of China-made cars are still published only on Chinese Internet sites without English translation. And also CCF can't attract many owners of Chinese cars to help newbies.

Without new members who would publish interesting news we can't expect to get more new members. Period.

When I signed in there were many more people here. We had some good contributors and interesting debates. But gradually most of them just vanished without explanation. Only a handful left (I will not mention their names, you will easily find them). I'm scared for the future of this forum...

[stilo]

You joined the CCF one year earlier than me, Martin. Back in 2008, the Forum was nearly dead in my eyes, whereas the situation within the last months got a bit better, but maybe that is just my impression.

I understand many of your concerns and the situation, as you describe it, seems to be a vicious circle. The most active users are either from central Europe - living within a distance of maybe 1500km - or from the states. We havenīt seen many cars on the road yet, correct, but isnīt that part of the attraction we have towards chinese cars?! Not looking at them makes them more intresting, at least to me. I see tons of VWs, BMWs, MBs on the streets every day and i am so bored that I donīt participate in any forum that deals with german cars.

I am also a bit scared about this forums future, but on the other hand, I have no real idea, how to change the current situation. Do you have any?

[martin_krpan]

We can wait and see what the future will bring...

Hopefuly contribution from active members will attract new people looking to find something about Chinese car industry and their products. When Chinese cars will be available in more countries people will get more familiar with them and start searching for information. And here I see the future for this forum. Almost all Chinese companies and vehicles are presented here just waiting for other people to discover them. And don't foget Chinese are developing many new and interesting products, including electric vehicles which will affect global auto industry.

Unfortunately according to some information people in China can't access CCF. This is the reason we are deprived of first-hand information from PRC residents.

Yes I agree the situation has improved lately. New users signed up and started writing. This is the way to go.

[Rally Red Lancer GTS]

This is a "just hang in there" type of forum. Painfully slow to process information at times, and, often with no new information. Martin does a fantastic job of providing information, but, as has been stated, if new information is being stuffed down, how can anyone add it in?

My biggest interest in coming here is to closely follow new Chinese-made all-electric cars, like BYD's new all-electric car called the e6. And what is really cool is that BYD is actively preparing them for export to the U.S. for sale there.

[jmsteiny]

Martin, you are right about people in China not being able to access CCF.....at least part of the time. I've been on this forum since 2006 - but there have been times that I have not been able to access this site. Last year (2008) I would say that there was a 6 month period or so that I could not get to this site......and then magically one day I tried, and voila - I'm here again! It DOES seem like the activity on this forum has diminished............let's hope that it will pick back up soon.

[BigFatGuy]

I asked the very same question a while back. Pretty much got the same answers too. :) This forum gets a TON of views. We should have this section filled with new threads every day, but obviously that isn't happening. I've also heard that it could be people interested in chinese cars that can't read/write English. However, I think there are some decent translation devices out there, so not sure if that is the case.
Still, I'll be here. Just not every day. :)

[axeray]

I'm new around here and have noticed the lack of numbers.

Chinese cars will eventually expand into other countries and the numbers will increase. I think it'll be a few years before that will happen. Whether the forum survives that long will be anyones guess.

However, when this forum does take off it will really get going. Everyone will need to tough it out just like the Big 3 are at the moment.

[dragin]

Maintaining a popular forum is a full time job. It takes a lot of attention, and even screening.

I have lost count of the number of times I have come here and found a list of spam ads from people trying to sell cameras, or other inept stuff. To a serious car enthusiast it's a real turn-off. People who are searching for some valuable facts or information about China's auto industry, don't have time to wade through unrelated nonsense.

And then you have the passers-by, that come and say no more than, "I really like those cool wheels." These kind of comments are a waste of time, and should be screened out. I wish they could be previewed on the forum homepage, so I wouldn't have to waste my time actually opening the thread.

Yes, I am all for screening but not for censoring.
There used to be some interesting discussions between some people quite knowledgeable of the workings of the auto industry. But because one individual insisted on using a very offensive user name, CCF came under heavy criticism, and finally censored all that person's postings. It's actually a shame that that happened. What I think would have been better would have been to censor the offensive name. Afterall most good forums pre-screen the user names, and so from the beginning CCF could have forced this "hater" to use a name that was acceptable. But to censor his offensive opinion was not good for the forum.

In any case, I think that when compared with others, CCF is a very attractive format and is user friendly. It definitely has a lot of potential. But to survive it has to be better managed.

What's more, China would do well to allow its people the freedom to see and participate in CCF. Afterall the criticism that does appear here is mostly constructive. And that's good for the industry which Beijing has classified it as a "pillar industry". Finally it can be a good teaching tool for young students.

[stilo]

I guess you are talking about someone called "i hate china", dragin. i had no problems with his posts - and even though this members posts were provocative, they were also substantiated. On the other hand, I havenīt followed this specific member and his or her exclusion from this forum closely.

Nevertheless, deleting all of a members posts and exclude him or her from the forum hits a sour note of anticipatory obedience.

[alby13]

i think a big issue is there are a lot of users or lurkers who don't speak English well or at all. i'm glad it is in English because it is a valuable place for a primary English user like myself.

i think the forum itself is great. we will see a flood of people coming here when a Chinese manufacturer makes it to the US and starts selling.

[Rally Red Lancer GTS]

alby13-I agree, the U.S.response will pick up once a Chinese carmaker brings some cars to the U.S. for sale. That is primarily why I come here-I know the Chinese cars will eventually come to the U.S.and I want to see what's available for sale.

[MichaelBMW]

I would like to translate some important auto news or write my opinion from Chinese auto media on my 'China Car Fans (http://www.chinacarfans.com)' site, but with my bad English I can't do that well! Besides, lack of time is a big problem! There are plenty of information on Chinese auto portals, blogs and forums, but most of all are in Chinese! Most guys can't understand! Translation(or write one's own opinion by reading the Chinese auto news) is a big problem, anyone to help?

[EdT]

There is a backlash of Chinese made products here in North America blaming China from everything from the current economic crisis, high unemployment rate, collapse of US banks, collapse of US auto industry etc... This is corporate owned media brainwashing the populace while the top people of these greedy corporations are filling their pockets with profits on Chinese made products while criticizing them at the same time ...true hypocrisy at work here ! :mad:

I don't know how much longer my 6 year old car can hold out before I see a Chinese brand car here in Canada, maybe the closing of the Big 3 will speed things up I hope ! :thumb:

[igniz]

maybe if the moderators can upgrade this site into chinese or two versions... for more lively conversion.. because me too are not an english guy. :(

[carforall.net]

asked the very same question a while back. Pretty much got the same answers too. This forum gets a TON of views. We should have this section filled with new threads every day, but obviously that isn't happening. I've also heard that it could be people interested in chinese cars that can't read/write English. However, I think there are some decent translation devices out there, so not sure if that is the case.
Still, I'll be here. Just not every day.

[Raul]

I joined this website in 2006 but have been away for some time. I used to be quite active poster but somehow just drifted away. It was not easy to find new information or pictures about Chinese cars. Information in English is scarce. Some members have a better access to information so I felt I had nothing to contribute anymore.

Now I'm back and trying to catch up all the news I missed last year!

[dragin]

Raul, on the contrary, your posts always had real substance, and so eveyone benefited. Welcome back....... :-)

[Windy]

Now I'm back and trying to catch up all the news I missed last year!
Yes, welcome back :)

What the site needs is some genuine enthusiasts and you are one of those. :thumb:

[Rally Red Lancer GTS]

directautoexport-ccf stands for China Car Forums.

[TonyJZX]

the problem is the title

to everyone out there in the western world, 'china car' means stuff like Landwinds and Brilliance BS6s that get a 1 star rating

imagine what a 'koreacarforum.com' would have been like in 1989 or even 1999... it would have been a joke where people would see Hyundai and Kias that fall apart when you have a crash

even today you can see a lot of negative comments about Korean cars even though they are clearly a light year ahead of Chinese cars and even with Japanese cars

from my perspective i find it amazing that the people here are mainly East Europeans who sell and drive these cars

I think maybe in as few as 5 years we will see Chinese cars in the US/Can./UK/Europe markets and if they can sort out 5 star crash ratings, quality and reliability this forum will be take seriously

I am not prejudiced. If the Chinese can make BMW/Mercedes and Audi/VW cars in their factories the equal of the German factories there isn't really a problem in manufacturing - it's a problem of design and market perception.

It is the same as say an "indiacarforum.com". You will have a problem with the perception of cars made in India or Malaysia even or Thailand.

[Rally Red Lancer GTS]

People are afraid to try South Korean cars out, I don't know what the big deal is. I bought a 1999 Kia Sephia in May of 1999. Had a few problems and a few recalls, fortunately I had a good dealer service department.

I am very interested in Chinese cars, especially the 2011 BYD e6. If the car really goes 249 miles on one charge that will suit me fine. I see that VW will work with BYD on electric cars, that's a smart idea for both manufacturers. They can help each other out, after all, all-electric cars are new to both of them. BYD sounds very impressive, though.

VW scares me with their crappy reliability and actually nothing they've made lately looks good to me. But they've got some cars in the hopper that are starting to appeal to me. So this collaboration with BYD interests me quite a bit.

[phaeton]

Like Raul I drifted away; mainly due to my associations with work and forums (VW ones mainly).
I lurk at the current moment waiting for Martin to post something in the VW Group China section :D

However now that GWM has finally reached our Australian shores I'll take my camera out and take some snaps perhaps do a test drive or to :thumb:

[TonyJZX]

i see it like this:

china has a bad reputation for car safety, product liability and copying designs

china is very insular, they don't want share information about their cars

china doesn't have much impact on the west so far having really only sold in the middle east, africa and eastern europe

we're in the middle of a bad global economy

all this tends to make the english speaking audience wary of chinese cars

we don't mind chinese made consumer goods... perhaps we can accept chinese made LCD TVs for $499 but buying cars is a reflection on ourselves

i drive a japanese car and don't get much criticism for that

i also drive an australian car and there's some limited criticism

many people get criticism for driving a korean car

so to get people to spend $10k+ on a chinese car is problematic

[phaeton]

The amount of German (WWII), Japanese (WWII) & Korean (Crap till late 90s) cars says that eventually the Chinese vehicles will be accepted.

As you said Tony copying other manufacturers does not help acceptance in Western countries.

I think one manufacturer has to copy Toyota and Hyundai's formula in building reliable vehicles for the masses or lead in future technology........

[TonyJZX]

i see a similar problem with Indian (Mahindra) and Malaysian (Protons) cars here.

You can disguise with Thai Hondas and Isuzus come from.

I wonder how GWM are going? Not sure how well those 78kW GWM Sailors are gonna fare...

[phaeton]

::Off topic:: For one Mahindra has no dealer backup in Australia; they're only based in the Eastern States so far.

Proton have not built a product thats really hit Australia's mainly due to the lethargic engine but in them and build quality is patchy.

For Great Wall or any other manufacturer to survive in Australia must have....

-Strong Dealer Service & Parts
-30 to 60 dealers Australia wide
-Good Build Quality
-Good Warranty 3 year or higher and 100kms to unlimited kms anything beneath is not worth buying.

[TonyJZX]

i don't even think there's 30-60 kia dealers in australia

there's only 4 kia dealers in sydney

i'd like to see what GWM's strategy is

[jmsteiny]

i see it like this:

china has a bad reputation for car safety, product liability and copying designs

china is very insular, they don't want share information about their cars

china doesn't have much impact on the west so far having really only sold in the middle east, africa and eastern europe

we're in the middle of a bad global economy

all this tends to make the english speaking audience wary of chinese cars

we don't mind chinese made consumer goods... perhaps we can accept chinese made LCD TVs for $499 but buying cars is a reflection on ourselves

i drive a japanese car and don't get much criticism for that

i also drive an australian car and there's some limited criticism

many people get criticism for driving a korean car

so to get people to spend $10k+ on a chinese car is problematic

Wow, these are some very interesting comments - not negative or insulting at all - but VERY interesting........and I agree with a lot of them. This thread got off topic a bit (remember we're talking about CCF and the low response level), but these are great comments and I want to "revise and extend" for a bit.

Tony, you're right - China DOES have a bad reputation regarding car safety, liability and design cloning. Some of that is their own fault (think QQ, Coolbear, Florid, F3, etc.), BUT some of that is also due to unfair treatment (think of the recent situation in Germany with Brilliance and their safety ratings - that was borderline slander against Brilliance and even the German media admitted that). As far as being insular and not sharing information? Partly true..........but up until 3-4 years ago, there weren't all that many homegrown chinese cars to even get information about! Most of the big sellers here in China are made by foreign co-op companies (VW, Honda, Toyota, GM, Hyundai), and even the best selling homegrown cars (QQ and F3) are clones of foreign models! Also, most of the homegrown chinese cars will never be exported anyway, so companies don't feel much urgency to publish information in multiple languages. You ARE absolutely right about market impact though......China hasn't had much impact on the world market YET. The bad global economy COULD be China's ticket to introduce some of their great small cars to the world......the Geely Panda, Chery A1, Riich M1 and a few others that are NOT foreign clones could be good contenders for this. Let's not forget hybrids either - a few companies (like BYD) have cars (and technology) that trumps anything any other car company in the world is doing right now (Honda's FCX hydrogen car is amazing, but it is not production ready - BYD's F3DM is available right now and private citizens can now buy them) and could surprise the world market with a slew of new generation hybrid vehicles. Your comment about buying a chinese car being a reflection on ourselves? Very true........the same feeling was predominant in America in the 1970's when the first japanese cars were arriving. My dad was a WW2 veteran - he was not a bigoted man but you never would have seen him driving a japanese car - but he DID own a japanese camera!! I can see that same feeling right now with my friends in the USA - they can't imagine driving a chinese car, but they don't realize that the computer they type on or the clothes they wear are MADE IN CHINA ALREADY!! Here's something else to think about - there is a darn good chance that the first chinese made cars in America won't be chinese cars.........they'll be AMERICAN CARS!! GM has already talked about the possibility and so has Ford (the new Spark and Fiesta respectively) - it could easily be cheaper to import the car from China rather than building them elsewhere. I know, it sounds crazy - but really, no crazier than the thought of say.........driving a Honda Accord that is built in America? Honda has also talked about exporting the chinese built Fit to America (due to high sales demand for the Fit in the USA)........how would the american consumer feel about that? Would they even know the difference? Do you think Honda will put stickers on these cars saying "built in China"? NO WAY!!! Perception, people, perception - Honda has earned a rep in America for quality and durability - when people see that name they trust it - NO MATTER WHERE THE CAR IS ACTUALLY BUILT. That perception is something China's car industry does NOT have yet - but they're getting there quick.

OK, back to topic here for a bit..................I actually want to say that I am seeing a INCREASE in comments here at CCF!! There are some newer members here that are commenting a lot and I love it!! It's also great to see some of the "old guys" chiming in again........all in all I think that CCF is showing signs of growth and that's great. Let's hope that this trend continues - it's always nice to see new members and new comments here! :thumb:

[phaeton]

Well said Steiny :D

[dragin]

Hi JMSteiny:
Hope things are going well in the sunny south.

BYD's F3DM is available right now and private citizens can now buy them

I'm told not until September. I'm quite interested to see the public's reaction and how they will handle the plug-in recharging circumstances.

[jmsteiny]

Damn, you must have some good contacts - I still thought it was this month! In any case, if they do what I THINK they will do...........many apartment complexes in China (at least in Nanning) already offer plug in areas for electric bikes.........you either pay a monthly fee or pay 1-2 rmb every time you charge your bike. The concept could be easily "expanded" to include plug in hybrid cars........for example my garage simply lays out a series of extension cords for any and all electric bikes that need them...........simply do something similar where the cars park and have an area available for plug in cars. Apartment complexes in Shenzhen are doing this already, so there should be no problem for people who buy the F3DM in Shenzhen. Other cities will have to make some small adjustments - but it's a simple solution so let's hope we see the F3DM soon on the streets of MANY chinese cities!

[fightingtorque]

I used to love the banter with hater, and was a bit sad to look back in a while after leaving china and see he'd been dispatched from the forum.

I guess it would have worn thin by now though.

Just popped back in as my email indicated there was progress on one of the threads I was subscribed to, hope you are all having fun!

[ash]

hey guys i think the response is low due to the unpopularity of chinese cars...most ppl either hate chinese cars or dont care about them...and until the US or EU markets start importing them seriously , till then will we see real authentic interest

[jmsteiny]

You know Ash, I suppose that for americans (especially those that are or were part of the auto industry), news articles like this don't help..........http://www.newsweek.com/id/195095

I actually bought this magazine in the airport in Shanghai because of this article, I found a internet link for the article and thought all of you might find it interesting!:thumb:

[KiwiGuy]

I don't think there's anything wrong with the response level here. Sure there are some dull moments when no one does much, but I'm always editing my posts and finding lots of new stuff. Now there are Chinese cars down here, I finding pics and info on any more brands coming down. I also understand that many of our mods have other commitments such as work, studies etc. so really, I'm not surprised that there are flat periods. Still, I like this forum and I would hate to see it die.

[Rally Red Lancer GTS]

I'd second that emotion of yours, KiwiGuy. I'm hooked on CCF!

[sa220]

Add one more viewer and hopefully contributor to the forum!

Now the chinese vehicles have arrived in Australia (Great Wall V240 and SA220 - renamed Wingle and Sailor respectively), I'll be following this forum regularily.

The SA220 is the kind of vehicle I hope to purchase inside the next 10 months, I've seen the ute at the dealers and first month sales of Great Wall in Australia have been very good.

For the past 10 years I've owned Korean Cars (Hyundai Excel, Accent and now i30) and the acceptance of these cars in the Australian market is such that Hyundai is now #4 in the Australian market, just behind Ford at #3.

I believe chinese vehicles will succeed in the Australian market if continued low cost and reasonably good quality can be delivered, then negative perceptions will be gradually diminished in the same way that Hyundai has succeeded.

[KiwiGuy]

I also agree with earlier posts that acceptance in the Western World with Chinese automobiles is almost nil, with many websites posting negative stuff about the Chinese automotive industry. I used to be the same but I feel that many are "uneducated" in a way about Chinese cars. And don't forget, for those who live in Australia and New Zealand who post and contribute to this website, that both governments heavily import used Japanese cars of the same quality. I see it as many people making uneducated assumptions about the Chinese auto industry.

And the lack of info in English is a big factor as well.

[Shanghai Rohens]

Martin, you are right about people in China not being able to access CCF.....at least part of the time. I've been on this forum since 2006 - but there have been times that I have not been able to access this site. Last year (2008) I would say that there was a 6 month period or so that I could not get to this site......and then magically one day I tried, and voila - I'm here again! It DOES seem like the activity on this forum has diminished............let's hope that it will pick back up soon.

I've just recently joined this forum and immediately noticed the lack of numbers and responses. However that's OK - it remains one of my 'always open' sites so if anyone says anything I'll nail them :D

I can confirm (of course - from my user name) that I live in China and have no problem accessing this site at the moment. However probably the biggest issue for us living here is the (seemingly) random blocking of servers by the Chinese Govt. They find a server with something they don't like on it and BAM ! all other sites hosted on that server are blocked too. My own site has had to be moved twice within the last year (and no it's not subversive or porn ) :cool:

Looks to me like you are doing a great job Martin - hope you get more support soon. If anyone needs photos of anything ask me - I'll try and get them for you but can't promise I can or that I'll be quick !

[Shanghai Rohens]

I also agree with earlier posts that acceptance in the Western World with Chinese automobiles is almost nil, with many websites posting negative stuff about the Chinese automotive industry. I used to be the same but I feel that many are "uneducated" in a way about Chinese cars. And don't forget, for those who live in Australia and New Zealand who post and contribute to this website, that both governments heavily import used Japanese cars of the same quality. I see it as many people making uneducated assumptions about the Chinese auto industry.

And the lack of info in English is a big factor as well.

Sorry mate but I have to disagree with you. I have been in China for the last 15 years and can tell you categorically that the home-grown market was full of abysmal cars, trucks and wagons !

However things are beginning to change and I've owned 3 Chinese made cars a Landwind (never, ever again, even with your money) and two Cherys (I would buy a Chery without hesitation, fitting quality is a bit lacking but mechanically robust and superb value for money. The ones I had were utilising Mitsubishi engines & transmissions).

However they are extremely innovative (usually by finding something they like, copying it and improving on it - ask GM) but now also in the area of 'green' cars for the future. They are great at making small innovative cars since that's what sells the most. Quality is improving in leaps & bounds though driven by the competition from foreign companies such as GM, Honda & Toyota.

There is also a huge market (because there are vast amounts of disposable income) for luxury imported cars which sell for unbelievable prices here. Usually anywhere from 50% to 100% above their home market price. Sooner or later these manufacturers will build their own factories here (they have already started) and that again will help on the road to quality improvement.

[martin_krpan]

Looks to me like you are doing a great job Martin - hope you get more support soon. If anyone needs photos of anything ask me - I'll try and get them for you but can't promise I can or that I'll be quick !

Thanks Shanghai Rohens and welcome to the CCF!
Feel free to post anything you find interesting. China is still a mystery for most foreigners.

[jmsteiny]

Actually, I am seeing some INCREASE here in the activity of the forum, and some great new members from the land "down under"!! It also helps that 2009 has been a VERY active year for new car introductions in the chinese market (or so it seems), and from the way it looks 2010 will be just as busy. Also, with several chinese car companies on the verge of breaking in to the "big 3" market areas (Europe/Japan/USA) in the next 1-2 years, AND the fact that China is a LEADER right now in developing new "green" technology for cars.............it gives us A LOT to talk about! Here's something to think about mods - how about a new sub-forum here just for news/comments about "green" cars/technology/innovations/etc. I know we comment about individual models in each of the manufacturer's sub forums, but I'm talking about a new forum area where we can centralize that and make comments on this rapidly growing area of the auto industry - REGARDLESS of manufacturer. Environmental infrastructure (green technology) is becoming one of the new "hot" areas for investment in America, and the impact on the world auto industry is significant, long term and far reaching. I think it's worthy of a new forum area here............what do you think mods?:thumb:

[Rally Red Lancer GTS]

http://www.treehugger.com/three-wheelers-funding.jpg

Yeah, can we play, Mod's? :cool: