Shanghai Auto is going to build up their own brands.
When these big state-owned corporations enter the race, we'll see some real stuff.:thumb:


In April, the company announced it will spend more than $1.7 billion over the next five years to create its own brand that will be launched sometime in the next couple of months. (The name of the brand has still not been announced although ‘Shanghai'—the name of the brand which SAIC originally manufactured under—is under discussion.) Plans call for developing more than 30 models based on five basic platforms.

And the company says it may export to Europe as early as next year.

welcome to chinacarforums OUTOFIN

:) We hope to see more posts from you soon:)

1.7 Billion sounds like alot! Hey Chinahater, what do you have to say to that figure?

1.7 Billion sounds like alot! Hey Chinahater, what do you have to say to that figure?
$1.7 billion/5 years = $340 million/year

$340 million is a small change in the automotive world.

:confused: Why we got a China hater here? :confused:

All right, $1.7b is nothing compared to squandering American corporations. Remeber how much the Chinese spend on sending men to outer space? $2.3 in a decade. The number couldn't affort NASA to live for several months.

I think SAIC will achieve there goal.

1. Because of experience with JV's.
2. JV partner's may assist them.
3. They are willing to spend some money to make 5 platforms that comply with EU rules and regulations.

Actuall their success is more like a wish than a prediction to me. If they succeed, we're seeing the Chinese are making a new way of moderization.

Other countries followed 3 stages:
1. work hard using their labors to make some money
2. climb the ladder to make more money by using their brains
3. now they're so rich that they can hire other people and be the boss

If the Chinese succeed, interestingly, we skip stage 2. By having a huge market, we've already got so rich that we can hire the best brains around the world. The news I posted was actually from Business Week, about the news SAIC hiring GM's vice president and many other similiar cases. (Though I'm not allowed to provide the link. Administrator, I have to put the blame on you. :nono: )

:confused: Why we got a China hater here? :confused:

All right, $1.7b is nothing compared to squandering American corporations. Remeber how much the Chinese spend on sending men to outer space? $2.3 in a decade. The number couldn't affort NASA to live for several months.

this is so true, Real_i_hate_china, you have to admit to the fact that it might be small change in the auto industry in the North American perspective, but in the chinese perspective, 1.7b is a hell of a lot of money and they can do more things ...maybe 50% more than what the US corps could do with that money in terms of R&D and manual labour

I think they should just use their name, SAIC as their brand name. It sounds pretty good to me.

China_hater is a goddamn moron, don't bother with anything that goddamned idiot says. He's full of shit, and nothing more.

but in the chinese perspective, 1.7b is a hell of a lot of money and they can do more things ...maybe 50% more than what the US corps could do with that money in terms of R&D and manual labour
So 50% more than $340 million = $500 million, still a fraction of what the other companies are spending.

Again, this is not a significant amount.

Japanese had it easy because they were going up against Americans selling unreliable and gas-guzzling monsters in the 70s.

Koreans had it tougher because they were going up against Japanese, who were still mostly econo-box centric at the time of their international market debut in 1985.

Chinese are now going up against Japanese and Koreans, who are offering high-quality cars at a competitive price. Note that not even Koreans are able to lure consumers away from Honda and Toyota, they are gaining market share at the expense of GM, Ford, and 2nd tier Japanese brands.

Happy consumers are brand-royal and stick with proven brands. The fact that Chinese are now going up against Japanese mean they won't be successful in drawing consumers away from Japanese.

Wrong. I've been buying Japanese cars for years. As soon as Chinese cars are available in the US, with decent quality and value, I'm buying one.

Wrong. I've been buying Japanese cars for years. As soon as Chinese cars are available in the US, with decent quality and value, I'm buying one.

And remember that minorities are growing very fast in North America,

so in 10 years, people wont have that same mentality to just support US products

And remember that minorities are growing very fast in North America,

so in 10 years, people wont have that same mentality to just support US products
And who says those will start buying Chinese cars?

And who says those will start buying Chinese cars?

If the price is right I don't see no reason why they wouldn't buy them. People buy Chinese-made consumer products from Wal-Mart and don't complain. In the future they will buy Chinese cars too.

So 50% more than $340 million = $500 million, still a fraction of what the other companies are spending.

Again, this is not a significant amount.

I disagree. In China that is a huge sum of money. With that kind of money Chinese could build a space craft every year.

Happy consumers are brand-royal and stick with proven brands. The fact that Chinese are now going up against Japanese mean they won't be successful in drawing consumers away from Japanese.

There are many consumers who don't care where the car is made. They are just looking at the price tag. These same people bought the first Japanese and Korean cars.

I disagree. In China that is a huge sum of money.
It is not a huge sum of money even in China. Why? Because R&D equipment cost the same regardless of where you buy them. China has to pay the same amount, if not more, for crash dummies. It cost the same to put a 5 mile test track in China as it does anywhere else. You have to pay the going international rate+premium for foreign talents that currently make up the core of Chinese automaker's R&D.

Um, you're making a lot of (false) assumptions. Land in China is way cheaper than in Japan for example, so is labor. So to build a track in China is much, much cheaper than in Japan.

China_hater is a goddamn moron, don't bother with anything that goddamned idiot says. He's full of shit, and nothing more.
hey man, hater has 250 post, without him here we got barley enought stuff to talk about. lol. and yes i do agree that he is a god damn idiot.

hey man, hater has 250 post, without him here we got barley enought stuff to talk about. lol. and yes i do agree that he is a god damn idiot.

Unfortunately, most of these posts are arguments between hater and other members, which only exist in the general discussions, off topic, and Chery automobile forums. The forums could be significantly improved if hater would make more constructive posts in more forums.

Unfortunally, mmost of the time the post are arguements between hater and other members, and they only exist in the general discusssion, off topic, and Chery automobile forums. It would make the forum a much better place if hater would make more constructive post in more forums.
Use plurals. ;)

hater supports CCF in his own way.

Use plurals. ;)

hater supports CCF in his own way.

Thanks for pointing out my grammatical errors and you are right, CCF wouldn't be the same place without hater.

It is not a huge sum of money even in China. Why? Because R&D equipment cost the same regardless of where you buy them. China has to pay the same amount, if not more, for crash dummies. It cost the same to put a 5 mile test track in China as it does anywhere else. You have to pay the going international rate+premium for foreign talents that currently make up the core of Chinese automaker's R&D.

I'm not the chassises expert, BUT. I doubt that the R&D equipment is the biggest cost. How much % of the 500 million chassises development cost goes on crash test dummies?

I would guess that the big parts of the development costs are human, and generally that is cheaper in china, and in prototype tooling, prototype parts production and production tooling. Regarding tooling, I can tell you that tooling for metal parts in china is between 1/2 and 1/10 of the price of foreign made tooling, the reason is because it is so labour intensive to produce.

Also, whereas in the West the car makers pay the suppliers for the tooling, unfortunately for parts makers in china the car makers expect the tooling and prototypes to be free. And the parts makers both foreign and chinese are willing to provide the tooling free in order to gain position in the growing market. I didn't read this on the internet, it's just my personal experience from 7 years in the auto component industry in china. Hater probably knows more about it.

The idea that building a test track in china would cost as much as the West is laughable - anybody who ever saw a road being built will know it's a lot of people working with some relatively straightforward machinery and using materials that you can dig out the ground.

One last note on R&D equipment. Chinese engine Dynamometer costs less than half the price of a foreign one. I know someone who is debating whether or not to take the risk.

Um, you're making a lot of (false) assumptions. Land in China is way cheaper than in Japan for example, so is labor. So to build a track in China is much, much cheaper than in Japan.


False assumptions? Uneducated guessing? Yeah, that's really a first for China Hater. Actually, that seems to be what his whole life thrives on. Find me a more negative, instigating, full of shit know nothing person on this earth, and I'll stick a tail to my ass and call myself a donkey.

I'm not the chassises expert, BUT. I doubt that the R&D equipment is the biggest cost. How much % of the 500 million chassises development cost goes on crash test dummies?
Crash dummies cost $100K each. And you need to purchase from the US or EU companies to meet their crash regulations.

I would guess that the big parts of the development costs are human, and generally that is cheaper in china
Entry newbies, yes. Project leaders with a couple of actual cars engineered; these are foreigners making 2~3X as much as they used to in their homeland.

I can tell you that tooling for metal parts in china is between 1/2 and 1/10 of the price of foreign made tooling, the reason is because it is so labour intensive to produce.
Of course Chinese products are only competitive in labor intensive environment. Chinese labor cost advantage becomes irrelevant in a highly automated environment like today's auto plants.

One last note on R&D equipment. Chinese engine Dynamometer costs less than half the price of a foreign one.
But just not as reliable.

Of course Chinese products are only competitive in labor intensive environment. Chinese labor cost advantage becomes irrelevant in a highly automated environment like today's auto plants.
We're talking about protoype parts, not high volume. Prototype parts and tooling are made in a labour intensive manner in the west too. I am sure you can find something about it on the internet if you don't believe me.



But just not as reliable.
Would appreciate you forwarding me the data on that statement, it would help with the decision making. Assuming it was a fact based comment and not a general anti china backlash.

On the crash test dummies, I didn't know about the price. I had a look on the internet and found one price reference which concurred with your 100k USD. However, I suspect it may be wrong to assume that the entire dummy is scrapped in every test, many parts are rebuildable. So you still haven't answered the question of how much of the 5M USD needs to be spent on dummies. Since we know from your gospel that the chassis development costs 500million, I would say anything over 25million (5%) is a significant part of the cost. That's 250 dummies. Too many or not enough, I have no idea, but it sounds like more than enough.