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Old 05-26-2009, 01:48 AM   #21
TonyJZX
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Default Re: Why is the response level so low on CCF?

the problem is the title

to everyone out there in the western world, 'china car' means stuff like Landwinds and Brilliance BS6s that get a 1 star rating

imagine what a 'koreacarforum.com' would have been like in 1989 or even 1999... it would have been a joke where people would see Hyundai and Kias that fall apart when you have a crash

even today you can see a lot of negative comments about Korean cars even though they are clearly a light year ahead of Chinese cars and even with Japanese cars

from my perspective i find it amazing that the people here are mainly East Europeans who sell and drive these cars

I think maybe in as few as 5 years we will see Chinese cars in the US/Can./UK/Europe markets and if they can sort out 5 star crash ratings, quality and reliability this forum will be take seriously

I am not prejudiced. If the Chinese can make BMW/Mercedes and Audi/VW cars in their factories the equal of the German factories there isn't really a problem in manufacturing - it's a problem of design and market perception.

It is the same as say an "indiacarforum.com". You will have a problem with the perception of cars made in India or Malaysia even or Thailand.
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Old 05-26-2009, 09:18 AM   #22
Rally Red Lancer GTS
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Default Re: Why is the response level so low on CCF?

People are afraid to try South Korean cars out, I don't know what the big deal is. I bought a 1999 Kia Sephia in May of 1999. Had a few problems and a few recalls, fortunately I had a good dealer service department.

I am very interested in Chinese cars, especially the 2011 BYD e6. If the car really goes 249 miles on one charge that will suit me fine. I see that VW will work with BYD on electric cars, that's a smart idea for both manufacturers. They can help each other out, after all, all-electric cars are new to both of them. BYD sounds very impressive, though.

VW scares me with their crappy reliability and actually nothing they've made lately looks good to me. But they've got some cars in the hopper that are starting to appeal to me. So this collaboration with BYD interests me quite a bit.
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Old 06-20-2009, 05:37 AM   #23
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Like Raul I drifted away; mainly due to my associations with work and forums (VW ones mainly).
I lurk at the current moment waiting for Martin to post something in the VW Group China section

However now that GWM has finally reached our Australian shores I'll take my camera out and take some snaps perhaps do a test drive or to
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:04 AM   #24
TonyJZX
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Default Re: Why is the response level so low on CCF?

i see it like this:

china has a bad reputation for car safety, product liability and copying designs

china is very insular, they don't want share information about their cars

china doesn't have much impact on the west so far having really only sold in the middle east, africa and eastern europe

we're in the middle of a bad global economy

all this tends to make the english speaking audience wary of chinese cars

we don't mind chinese made consumer goods... perhaps we can accept chinese made LCD TVs for $499 but buying cars is a reflection on ourselves

i drive a japanese car and don't get much criticism for that

i also drive an australian car and there's some limited criticism

many people get criticism for driving a korean car

so to get people to spend $10k+ on a chinese car is problematic
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Old 06-20-2009, 06:54 PM   #25
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Default Re: Why is the response level so low on CCF?

The amount of German (WWII), Japanese (WWII) & Korean (Crap till late 90s) cars says that eventually the Chinese vehicles will be accepted.

As you said Tony copying other manufacturers does not help acceptance in Western countries.

I think one manufacturer has to copy Toyota and Hyundai's formula in building reliable vehicles for the masses or lead in future technology........
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Old 06-20-2009, 10:33 PM   #26
TonyJZX
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Default Re: Why is the response level so low on CCF?

i see a similar problem with Indian (Mahindra) and Malaysian (Protons) cars here.

You can disguise with Thai Hondas and Isuzus come from.

I wonder how GWM are going? Not sure how well those 78kW GWM Sailors are gonna fare...
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Old 06-21-2009, 02:07 AM   #27
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Default Re: Why is the response level so low on CCF?

::Off topic:: For one Mahindra has no dealer backup in Australia; they're only based in the Eastern States so far.

Proton have not built a product thats really hit Australia's mainly due to the lethargic engine but in them and build quality is patchy.

For Great Wall or any other manufacturer to survive in Australia must have....

-Strong Dealer Service & Parts
-30 to 60 dealers Australia wide
-Good Build Quality
-Good Warranty 3 year or higher and 100kms to unlimited kms anything beneath is not worth buying.
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Old 06-21-2009, 03:40 AM   #28
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Default Re: Why is the response level so low on CCF?

i don't even think there's 30-60 kia dealers in australia

there's only 4 kia dealers in sydney

i'd like to see what GWM's strategy is
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Old 06-26-2009, 10:36 PM   #29
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Default Re: Why is the response level so low on CCF?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TonyJZX
i see it like this:

china has a bad reputation for car safety, product liability and copying designs

china is very insular, they don't want share information about their cars

china doesn't have much impact on the west so far having really only sold in the middle east, africa and eastern europe

we're in the middle of a bad global economy

all this tends to make the english speaking audience wary of chinese cars

we don't mind chinese made consumer goods... perhaps we can accept chinese made LCD TVs for $499 but buying cars is a reflection on ourselves

i drive a japanese car and don't get much criticism for that

i also drive an australian car and there's some limited criticism

many people get criticism for driving a korean car

so to get people to spend $10k+ on a chinese car is problematic
Wow, these are some very interesting comments - not negative or insulting at all - but VERY interesting........and I agree with a lot of them. This thread got off topic a bit (remember we're talking about CCF and the low response level), but these are great comments and I want to "revise and extend" for a bit.

Tony, you're right - China DOES have a bad reputation regarding car safety, liability and design cloning. Some of that is their own fault (think QQ, Coolbear, Florid, F3, etc.), BUT some of that is also due to unfair treatment (think of the recent situation in Germany with Brilliance and their safety ratings - that was borderline slander against Brilliance and even the German media admitted that). As far as being insular and not sharing information? Partly true..........but up until 3-4 years ago, there weren't all that many homegrown chinese cars to even get information about! Most of the big sellers here in China are made by foreign co-op companies (VW, Honda, Toyota, GM, Hyundai), and even the best selling homegrown cars (QQ and F3) are clones of foreign models! Also, most of the homegrown chinese cars will never be exported anyway, so companies don't feel much urgency to publish information in multiple languages. You ARE absolutely right about market impact though......China hasn't had much impact on the world market YET. The bad global economy COULD be China's ticket to introduce some of their great small cars to the world......the Geely Panda, Chery A1, Riich M1 and a few others that are NOT foreign clones could be good contenders for this. Let's not forget hybrids either - a few companies (like BYD) have cars (and technology) that trumps anything any other car company in the world is doing right now (Honda's FCX hydrogen car is amazing, but it is not production ready - BYD's F3DM is available right now and private citizens can now buy them) and could surprise the world market with a slew of new generation hybrid vehicles. Your comment about buying a chinese car being a reflection on ourselves? Very true........the same feeling was predominant in America in the 1970's when the first japanese cars were arriving. My dad was a WW2 veteran - he was not a bigoted man but you never would have seen him driving a japanese car - but he DID own a japanese camera!! I can see that same feeling right now with my friends in the USA - they can't imagine driving a chinese car, but they don't realize that the computer they type on or the clothes they wear are MADE IN CHINA ALREADY!! Here's something else to think about - there is a darn good chance that the first chinese made cars in America won't be chinese cars.........they'll be AMERICAN CARS!! GM has already talked about the possibility and so has Ford (the new Spark and Fiesta respectively) - it could easily be cheaper to import the car from China rather than building them elsewhere. I know, it sounds crazy - but really, no crazier than the thought of say.........driving a Honda Accord that is built in America? Honda has also talked about exporting the chinese built Fit to America (due to high sales demand for the Fit in the USA)........how would the american consumer feel about that? Would they even know the difference? Do you think Honda will put stickers on these cars saying "built in China"? NO WAY!!! Perception, people, perception - Honda has earned a rep in America for quality and durability - when people see that name they trust it - NO MATTER WHERE THE CAR IS ACTUALLY BUILT. That perception is something China's car industry does NOT have yet - but they're getting there quick.

OK, back to topic here for a bit..................I actually want to say that I am seeing a INCREASE in comments here at CCF!! There are some newer members here that are commenting a lot and I love it!! It's also great to see some of the "old guys" chiming in again........all in all I think that CCF is showing signs of growth and that's great. Let's hope that this trend continues - it's always nice to see new members and new comments here!
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Old 06-26-2009, 10:43 PM   #30
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Default Re: Why is the response level so low on CCF?

Well said Steiny
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