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Old 07-17-2019, 12:33 PM   #81
Lawrence
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Default Re: Beijing Automobile Works (BAW) Introduction

Erik, I just briefly read about Gangstar in the New York Times, in the mid-nineties, a few years before I seriously started following the rise of auto development in China,
But looking into my archives, I found an article from www.allbusiness.com that talks about a fellow by the name of Henry Wong, an importer, and CEO of "Beijing Auto of America". He apparently is the person who gave the name to the BJ212 that was aimed at the US market. Unfortunately the (old) link I have for that article is no longer valid. The article says that Shelburg was the marketing manager of Wong's company. However, as we know, Shelburg also had his own China Motor Corp, under which he later planned to import a number of other China auto manufacturer's products..., such as Brilliance, Great Wall, and Hafei (see CCF posts such as: https://www.chinacarforums.com/forum...light=Shelburg). None of course made it through the web of certifications and homologations they faced.
As for the Gangstar, Lindsay Chappell of trade publication "Automotive News" wrote articles about it, as did Dealer Magazine, USA Today, and others.
As for other photos of the Gangstar, I come up empty. Here's one of David Shelburg with a Great Wall (Admiral maybe) pickup.
Thanks for the heads up about China Trade Associates' Beijing Tiger, BAM North America, or FMW of America's Copia. I had not heard about them before.
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Old 11-17-2019, 11:09 AM   #82
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Default Re: Beijing Automobile Works (BAW) Introduction

Dear readers,

I'm trying to figure out the history of BAW and its relationship to BAIC. I'm new here, so forgive me if my questions have been answered before.

My understanding is as follows:

1953: Auto Accessory Factory is created by Beijing municipal government.
1958: The name is changed to Beijing Automobile Works as car productions starts.
1973 BAIC Group is created by Beijing municipal government as holding company of several car industry related companies.

Q1: Does BAW become a subsidiary of BAIC Group at this point?

1983: BAW forms Beijing Jeep joint venture with American Automobiles.
1987: BAW merges with Beijing Motorcycle Company to become Beijing Automobile & Motorcycle United Company (BAM).

Q2: Is there still a legal entity BAW at this point?
Q3: Is BAM owned by BAIC Group?

1994: A new entity appears: Beijing Auto Assembly Company (BAA). This seems unrelated to BAIC Group.

Q4: What is BAA and what is its relation to BAM?

1996: BAM creates Beiqi Foton truck maker.
2001: There is a restructure of BAM. According to reports a new company called Beijing Automobile Works Co Ltd is created, that incorporates the old BAW, BAA, Beijing Jeep and Beiqi Foton. Confusingly BAA is named as majority owner of the new BAW.

Q5: Is BAA incorporated in new-BAW or is it the owner?

2008: BAIC Group acquires a majority shareholding in new-BAW. In the years following apparently there is a group restructure, because Beijing Benz (new name of Beijing Jeep) is now a joint venture between BAIC Motor and Daimler and Beiqi Foton is a direct subsidiary of BAIC Group.

Some related questions:
Q6: Under what brand name are BAW vehicles sold on the Chinese market: BAW, BAIC, Beijing, BJ?
Q7: There is a seperate BAIC Group subsidiary called BAIC Group Off-road Vehicle Branch, that produces civilian versions of BAW-vehicles, which are sold as BAIC BJ by BAIC Motor. Is this subsidiary just a fancy name for a factory?
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Old 11-17-2019, 01:45 PM   #83
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Default Re: Beijing Automobile Works (BAW) Introduction

See if this article helps:

http://auto.ifeng.com/news/domestici...0/131720.shtml
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Old 11-19-2019, 12:45 PM   #84
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Default Re: Beijing Automobile Works (BAW) Introduction

Hello Dmitra,

That was an interesting article. Thanks! However, I don't speak or read Chinese, so I had to use Google Translate and that's not perfect yet. So what I get from it, is this:

1983: Beijing Jeep created, many BAW assets moved to the joined venture, BJ builds cars for BAW.

1987: BAW merges with Beijing Motorcycle to form BAM. Apparently a company called BAW remains active. Is it just a holding company for the BJ joint venture?

1993: Wang Jinyu of Shandong Zhucheng Vehicle Factory begins cooperation with BAM.

1996: Beiqi Foton created. The article says Wang Jinyu is the de facto controller, but doesn't mention a share ratio. Since Foton still has a Zhucheng based factory, I assume Wang's assets are added to Beiqi Foton.

2001: Yao Changshen of Beijing Auto Assembly Plant becomes an investor in BAM and acquires 67% of the share capital. The whole thing is restructured and a new BAW company is formed, with several assets moving from one company to another.

Then all the restructuring described in the linked article begins to take place. I have 2 related notes, probably from Gasgoo autonews.

2007: All shares in Beiqi Foton held by BAM are transferred to BAIC Group, making BAIC the controling shareholder of Foton.
2008: BAIC Group acquires a majority share (51%) in new-BAW by buying shares from Yao Changshen.

In 2010 BAIC Motor Co is created, the BAIC company for Beijing-branded cars. Some assets from elsewhere in the BAIC empire end up in this company, like Beijing Benz (the former BEijing Jeep), some factories and Beijing Hyundai. Now I wonder, but this is speculation on my because I can't find any English language sources, is BAIC Motor an entirely new company, or is it a restructure of some of the new-BAW/old-BAW/BAM assets?

Also BAIC Offroad Vehicles Branch pops up around that time. I can't find anything about the origins of that company as well. It is listed as 100% owned by BAIC Group and the only other car manufacturing company that was a wholly owned subsidiary of BAIC (that I've seen) is BAM. Is this Offroad Vehicles Branch restructered assets as well? Again speculation on my part.
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Old 11-19-2019, 01:27 PM   #85
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Default Re: Beijing Automobile Works (BAW) Introduction

Glad that you found the article somewhat helpful.

I have been looking into your questions and will try to clarify some of them, just give me some time. Even I am not conversant in Mandarin Chinese and have been using Google translate all these years (although I would have learned the language by this time if I had wanted to!). I can spare some time delving deeper into the matter after the upcoming motor show season (Guangzhou, LA, and Bangkok) gets over.

Meanwhile, if other history stalwarts on this forum such as Erik or Lawrence want to help our new friend with his queries, feel free to proceed.
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Old 12-09-2019, 05:33 PM   #86
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Default BAW BJ212 New Chassis

Some new information has come to light regarding specifications of the New Chassis versions. 3-door and 4-door versions will be launched, seating 4 and 5 respectively. The new dimensions are 4245 x 1830 x 1910 mm (4-door)/1970 mm (3-door). This makes it longer than the current BJ212 although somewhat narrower. Wheelbase has increased to 2460 mm, i.e. +160 mm compared to the current model. Track is widened to 1530 mm front and rear. [Any specification mentioned previously on this thread regarding the New Chassis version may please be disregarded]

For the 4-door, the prototype body seen in post #65 will not be used; it will be closer to the model seen in post#75 but doors will be new. The vehicle(s) will be powered by the 1499 cc, 110 kW turbocharged petrol engine (National VI-compliant) used in the current model (no info on diesel).

Update on the suspension/chassis: Front suspension (independent) is double wishbone, coil spring; rear suspension (non-independent) is four-link, coil spring.

Project 008: The New Chassis version of the BJ212 is part of BAW's Project (or Plan) 008. I don't know whether the all-new model shown as BAW 008 in 2017 has been canceled or not, but which if produced might have utilized this new chassis (or a modification thereof). Short- and long-wheelbase variants of this chassis are planned. Reportedly the new chassis is based on (or borrows from) that of the Kia KM420 military "jeep" [and related Kia Retona] which used to ride on a similar setup. Previously (see post#66) it was mentioned that the chassis was based on the BAW 007 but that could have been early speculation and can be ignored.

Last edited by dmitra; 12-10-2019 at 01:59 AM. Reason: description of rear suspension (corrected), comment about BAW 007
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Old 01-15-2020, 11:39 AM   #87
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Default BAW BJ212 8-seat (BJ2030CED2)

Long-body, 8-seat version of the BJ212, incorporating some elements from the Yongshi series. Wheelbase is 3035 mm. Track front and rear are 1510 mm and 1500 mm, same as the old model (not New Chassis).

[This may be considered a spiritual successor to past vehicles like the BJ6460HF1 or BJ6460F1]




http://www.miit.gov.cn/datainfo/viewCar?carId=281980#
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Old 05-25-2020, 01:51 PM   #88
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Default BAW BJ212 8-seat




From: club.autohome.com.cn
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Old 07-17-2020, 05:04 PM   #89
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2020 BJ212 1.5T canvas top, "triangle door", 2300 mm WB (BAW2023CHA2).

This is the traditional variant that has remained on sale alongside the New Chassis lineup, with a China-VI compliant engine.





Last edited by dmitra; 07-17-2020 at 05:09 PM.
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Old 07-17-2020, 05:06 PM   #90
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