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Old 04-05-2006, 06:26 PM   #11
mgrovernut
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E46DinanM3
Just drive around in America. You won't see many at all. They did not sell well at all here. Like I said, they didn't even sell enough to stay in business here.

Look at it this way, the biggest MG club has 50,000 people (not necessarliy all owners). Honda sells over 50,000 Accords in 2 months here. The fact is, MG made bad cars. Not even the British liked them enough to keep them in business.

Trust me on this one, I live in the states, I think I would know what Americans like and don't like better then someone who doesn't live here.
I've driven around the USA and I didn't see many Ferrari's, so presumably no one want's one then? I didn't see many Rolls Royce's or Bentley's either. So I presume these brands are worthless then! MG only left the US because Ralph Nader effectively killed the sportscar. It's the same reason that the E type Jag was removed from sale. No one remembers that car do they? (I'm being sarcastic just in case you have no idea what an E type is). You said Honda makes 50 000 Accords every 2 months in the US. So what? Lada makes 250 000 cars a year in Russia and has 2/3 rds of the market. How many Lada fan clubs do you know? The point is that in the USA no one has ever heard of Geeley, but car journalists know MG. So assuming the products are good then there will be a more natural bias towards them. If you have thousands of fans then that great marketing tool called word of mouth kicks in. It's not just about how many people know of MG, it's as much about what those people who knew the brand think of the cars.

P.S if MG is'nt well known how come Ross in Friends drove a bright red MG B in Friends?
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Old 04-06-2006, 02:01 AM   #12
E46DinanM3
 
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Ferrari, Bentley, and Rolls are completely different. The fact is that you don't see them because you could afford over 10 mid-range MGs for the price of one Ferrari F430. They are too expensive for 99% of Americans, an MG isn't/wasn't.

I will admit that there is a small cult following for MGs, but its not the kind of consumer base you would want for a car to compete with Ford, Honda, Toyota, etc. The people that like MGs are similar to Lotus Elise or Mini Cooper fans. They can support a small-ish amount of sales, but its not what you want for a full sized lineup, which is what the Chinese companies should be going for.

Also, most MGs were horrendously unreliable. British car makers are known for how much time they spend in the shop.
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Old 04-06-2006, 06:40 PM   #13
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MG is thought of as a European brand and therefore if you combine low Chinese labour costs with European branding and styling then your likely to be on to a winner in any market. It's like asking Brits would you rather own a Pontiac or a Geeley? We haven't seen either brand here but we would rather have a car with an American brand than a Chinese one. Even if the Pontiac was nothing like a real Pontiac.

I suppose I look at it like this. The last time MG launched a sportscar it became the best selling sportscar in the UK, thrashing the Mx5 until it ceased production last year. When the car was launched MG Rover received thousands of enquiries from the US begging them to sell the car there. In fact MG had planned to go back to the US but BMW actually admitted to Rover bosses that they were worried it would steal sales off the Z3! Now tell me how many people have rang up Nanjing begging them for a Soyat? How many Americans have begged for a Geeley? The simple fact is that Nanjing will sell more cars in the US if they call the cars MG's. Think about it. If you are offered a car wearing a Nanjing badge on or an MG badge on what are you realistically going to want to tell your neighbours you just bought? A Nanjing or an MG?


By the way if British cars are a lot better nowadays (see: http://www.carpages.co.uk/jaguar/jag...s-18-05-05.asp)
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Old 04-06-2006, 06:43 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E46DinanM3
I will admit that there is a small cult following for MGs, but its not the kind of consumer base you would want for a car to compete with Ford, Honda, Toyota, etc. The people that like MGs are similar to Lotus Elise or Mini Cooper fans. They can support a small-ish amount of sales, but its not what you want for a full sized lineup, which is what the Chinese companies should be going for.
Your dead right about the Mini Cooper. BMW really should have called the new MINI something else, after all they haven't sold many of those new MINI's have they (hint best selling Premium small car in the universe)

And why can't MG make a fuller line up of cars?
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Old 04-07-2006, 02:07 AM   #15
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You completely missed my point. The Cooper is a great car, but you don't see BMW trying to sell a Mini sedan, a Mini sportscar, a Mini SUV, etc. Its a brand with the consumer base to sell one type of car, same thing with Lotus, and I think its the same way with MG. The old MG roadster was a cool car, (like the Cooper) but I don't think anyone is going to want something like an MG sedan. You can't build a full scale company off of a name like that. As far as I can tell, Chinese car companies want to build up to compete with the likes of Honda and Toyota, you don't do that by making a few very specialized niche cars, but making cars with broad appeal, like the Accord and the Camry.

Do you really think it will take long for consumers to figure out that MGs have become Chinese?

British cars are better, but still not competitive in reliability-


As you can see, Land Rover and Mini are next to last (thanks to Kia) and Jaguar isn't exactly stellar either.
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Old 04-07-2006, 06:26 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E46DinanM3
but I don't think anyone is going to want something like an MG sedan.

Do you really think it will take long for consumers to figure out that MGs have become Chinese?

British cars are better, but still not competitive in reliability-
Err - I have an MG sedan - out of choice!

MG may now be owned by Nanjing but it has factories in both China and UK and is using mainly UK designers. To say it is now Chinese is not correct.

And as for reliability, I looked my MG up in reliability figures produced from warantee claims before purchase and it came out more reliable than any Honda sedan.
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Old 04-07-2006, 03:06 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E46DinanM3
You completely missed my point. The Cooper is a great car, but you don't see BMW trying to sell a Mini sedan, a Mini sportscar, a Mini SUV, etc. Its a brand with the consumer base to sell one type of car, same thing with Lotus, and I think its the same way with MG. The old MG roadster was a cool car, (like the Cooper) but I don't think anyone is going to want something like an MG sedan. You can't build a full scale company off of a name like that. As far as I can tell, Chinese car companies want to build up to compete with the likes of Honda and Toyota, you don't do that by making a few very specialized niche cars, but making cars with broad appeal, like the Accord and the Camry.

Do you really think it will take long for consumers to figure out that MGs have become Chinese?
But in a way the cars will be British as the engineering and styling is being done by Arup in the UK, all the Chinese will do is finance and assembly the cars. MG started life as a tuning house and first made sports saloons before becoming famed for its sportcars, so yes it can make cars like the Accord, as long as they retain a sporting flavour. Think of MG as building BMW style cars . My point is that whatever way you look at this using a Chinese brand is not as good as using the MG brand. It's really that simple. So ultimately MG will take on 'Honda and Toyota', but they will just be much more exciting cars....
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Old 04-07-2006, 03:34 PM   #18
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We'll just have to agree to disagree. China still has not proven to be able to build vehicles that meet the quality of American, German, or Japanese cars. It is way to early to be saying that "ultimately MG will take on 'Honda and Toyota,'" because we havn't seen any signs that the Chinese can make a quality vehicle by our standards. I really think that most American consumers are smart enough to look behind a British badge to see what really goes into the car. They should take the approach that Honda, Toyota, and Nissan took when marketing their luxury cars abroad under Acura, Lexus, and Infiniti.
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Old 04-07-2006, 03:57 PM   #19
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Read this- it focuses more on Rover then on MG, but many of the same ideas apply. Its written Jeremy Clarkson and he is pretty accurate on this one.

http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/art...0901_1,00.html

"I have little sympathy for anyone who ignored the advice of every expert in the land and bought a 45 'because itís British'."

"When Volvo went all sporty, the weak and the feeble had to look elsewhere. Most ended up in Rovers, dithering at junctions and generally driving the wrong way down motorways. There's one Rover that has been stationary at the double mini-roundabout in Chipping Norton for 15 years, its driver paralysed with fear"

"Even so some people are saying the demise of MG Rover is my fault because I failed to give the cars a good review and sneered at the men in hats who drove them. I canít understand this reasoning; am I supposed to recommend all cars that are made here irrespective of their price, performance or quality? Because if I am, all of you must go out tomorrow and buy a London cab."
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Old 04-09-2006, 02:25 PM   #20
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Of course Jeremy Clarkson loved the MG ZT 260. He called that charming. Bizare then that he hated the Rover 75 which won 18 major motoring awards when it was launched. I wonder how long we will have to wait for a chinese engineered and designed car to achieve that....
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