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CHAMCO and Zhongxing cooperation

62K views 70 replies 22 participants last post by  mememe 
#1 ·
Chinese car manufacturer Zhongxing is aiming to export it's models to US in coming years :thumb:


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"A Chinese state-owned manufacturer of pick-up trucks and sport utility vehicles (SUV) has said it will start exporting to the US, the South China Morning Post reported.

A spokesman for Zhong Xing Automobile (ZXA), based in Hebei province in north China, told the Hong Kong paper that the company aimed to have the first Chinese vehicle on sale in the US within 16 months, with planned exports of 30,000 in 2007, rising to 150,000 by 2010.

Two other Chinese firms, Chery Automobile and Geely Automobile, have announced plans to export to the US, both targeting the low-end passenger car market, selling for less than 10,000 usd per unit.

The ZXA spokesman, who gave his name only as Wang, said the firm was in negotiations with agents in the US to set up a sales network and was working with testing and certification centres outside the US to pass the vehicles to meet US requirements.

The pick-ups and SUVs will sell for more than 100,000 yuan.

ZXA has an annual production of 40,000 pick-ups and 15,000 SUVs, with assembly operations in Malaysia, Russia and Ukraine and last year exported 7,000 vehicles, the report said."
 
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#4 ·
Hebei Zhongxing latest automaker with plans for U.S. market

"By AUTOMOTIVE NEWS

AutoWeek | Published 06/23/06, 9:02 am et

Toyota, Honda, Nissan and a host of other automakers export cars to the United States.

So why not Hebei Zhongxing Automobile Co.?

Who?

Tiny Zhongxing (pronounced jong shing), which sold a grand total of 7,840 vehicles in 2005 (down 34.0 percent from 2004), became the fourth Chinese automaker with plans to sell cars in the United States.

One problem, though: The Chinese automaker has no models salable in the United States. They don't meet U.S. emissions and safety standards.

ZX Automobile Co. of North America, a subsidiary of China America Automotive Inc., of Parsippany, N.J., says it plans to import SUVs and pickups manufactured by Zhongxing in the second half of 2007.

Zhongxing president Xiao Wei has admitted that technology is a huge obstacle. But Zhongxing is charging ahead.

"We are studying the requirements for the U.S. market," said Yang Yongjin, manager of Zhongxing's import and export department. "We will need to make the right adjustments as far as emissions and safety requirements to our models. The project isn't the responsibility of my department yet."

Chery Automobile Co., a small but successful Chinese automaker, originally aimed to begin exports to the United States in 2007. But its engineers have admitted that the task is tougher than expected. They now think 2009 is more realistic.

China America is not the first U.S. company to claim it will import Zhongxing's vehicles. David Shelburg, an Arizona businessman, also has said he would import a Zhongxing SUV. But Zhongxing never announced the plan and no SUVs appeared.

Zhongxing is in Baoding, a city a few hours outside of Beijing in northern China. Baoding also is home to Great Wall Motor Co., another Chinese SUV maker aiming to sell vehicles in the United States."

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060623/FREE/60619021/1041/makeview
 
#6 ·
Another Chinese automaker wants in on U.S.

Hebei Zhongzing is the name of yet another Chinese automaker that plans to have its vehicles sold in the U.S. ZX Automobile Co. of North America, which is a subsidiary of China America Automotive Inc., claims that it will be selling SUVs and pickups manufactured by Hebei Zhongzing in the U.S. by late 2007.

Hebei Zhongzing is a small automaker even by Chinese standards, with a total annual output of last year amounting to only 7,840 vehicles. No vehicle in its current lineup meets U.S. emissions and safety standards, either. The company's president acknowledges that "technology is a huge obstacle," according to Autoweek. Meeting U.S. emissions and safety standards has been a thorn in the side of Malcolm Bricklin, whose insertion of Chery Automobile into the U.S. market has been delayed by this country's stiff safety and emissions requirements.

Zhongzing joins Malcolm Bricklin's Chery Automobile and Shufu Li's Geely Automobile Company in the Chinese auto industry's effort to establish a presence in the biggest automotive market in the world.
 
#9 ·
Ako još niste zapamtili ime ovog kineskog proizvođača - Hebei Zhongxing, vrijeme je da to učinite jer ova marka počinje ozbiljniji prodor na europsko tržište. Kinezi još uvijek dolaze kroz mala vrata do kupaca u EU, ali i Japanci su prije 30 godina dolazili sramežljivo, kao i Korejci prije 20 no obje su marke danas ovdje vrlo popularne.

Tako je sada red i na Kinezima koji ulaze na tržište preko jednog belgijskog uvoznika. S njime će prodavati svoje sporstke terence i pick-upove, a prvi koji dolazi je SUV, koji ipak nema kinesko ime, već svima u Europi lako pamtljivo - Landmark. Dakle Hebei Zhongxing Landmark je njihov prvi šminkerski terenac koji će za početak biti opremljen Mitsubishijevim benzincem obujma 2.4 litre.

Nije poznato kako je ovaj Kinez prošao na crash testovima budući da su loši rezultati glavni kamen spoticanja na zapadnim tržištima. Primjerice nedavno se jedan drugi kineski terenac Landwind (Kinezi očito vole 'zemaljska' imena) proizvođača Jianglinga na testovima EURO Ncapa doslovce razletio! Zbog tako lošeg rezultata nije osvojio niti jednu zvjezdicu što je bio presedan. Nadamo se da će Hebei Zhongxing - Landmark biti malo bolje sreće. (dč)

it say...landmark has come to belgium...some belgian export will sell those vehicles in europe...also the pick ups will be in offer...you see that they have mitsubishi engine

also it's sad...does this vehcile have crash test...and is it good or bad (like landwind)
 
#10 ·
latest article regarding this matter:

http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061012/FREE/61011002/1041/TOC01ARCHIVE

Risky Proposition
Chinese car uncertified for U.S. sales, but dealers sought

By ALYSHA WEBB | AUTOMOTIVE NEWS

AutoWeek | Published 10/11/06, 12:44 pm et

DETROIT -- Trolling for dealers, a New Jersey-based importer will show two Chinese vehicles at the National Automobile Dealers Association convention in Las Vegas in February.

Importer China America Cooperative Automotive Inc. wants to bring two models to the United States: a pickup and an SUV. They are assembled by Zhongxing Automobile Co., a small auto manufacturer in Baoding, in the northern Chinese province of Hebei.

But the vehicles have not met stiff U.S. emissions and safety standards. So dealers signed by the importer, also called Chamco, may have no vehicles to sell. Zhongxing produced 7,800 units in 2005.

Chamco, of Parsippany, N.J., says it has an exclusive agreement with Zhongxing to distribute the vehicles in the United States. It wants to sign up 120 dealers initially. Dealers must put up $250,000, which gives them an equity stake in Chamco, says William Pollack, the importer's executive vice president for strategic planning and marketing.

Says Chamco CEO Veechwin Li: "Our biggest challenge is to make sure the quality will be there."
 
#11 ·
Zhongxing uncertified for U.S. sales, but dealers sought

Risky Proposition
Chinese car uncertified for U.S. sales, but dealers sought

By ALYSHA WEBB | AUTOMOTIVE NEWS
http://www.autoweek.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20061012/FREE/61011002/1041/TOC01ARCHIVE
AutoWeek | Published 10/11/06, 12:44 pm et

DETROIT -- Trolling for dealers, a New Jersey-based importer will show two Chinese vehicles at the National Automobile Dealers Association convention in Las Vegas in February.

Importer China America Cooperative Automotive Inc. wants to bring two models to the United States: a pickup and an SUV. They are assembled by Zhongxing Automobile Co., a small auto manufacturer in Baoding, in the northern Chinese province of Hebei.

But the vehicles have not met stiff U.S. emissions and safety standards. So dealers signed by the importer, also called Chamco, may have no vehicles to sell. Zhongxing produced 7,800 units in 2005.

Chamco, of Parsippany, N.J., says it has an exclusive agreement with Zhongxing to distribute the vehicles in the United States. It wants to sign up 120 dealers initially. Dealers must put up $250,000, which gives them an equity stake in Chamco, says William Pollack, the importer's executive vice president for strategic planning and marketing.

Says Chamco CEO Veechwin Li: "Our biggest challenge is to make sure the quality will be there."
 
#13 ·
Zhongxing eyes US market

Hebei Zhongxing Automobile Co Ltd general manager Xiao Wei said the company is confident it will be able to sell its pickups to the United States as early as 2008 at its high-grade pickup Grandtiger release conference.
Zhongxing started preparations for entering the US market at the beginning of this year. First, it is cooperating with the China America Cooperative Automotive Inc (CHAMCO) to make products which will be sold in the US meet the required safety and emission standards. Secondly, Zhongxing is building an international service support and quality system. Xiao also said if domestic vehicles can meet all US standards, which are relatively strict, and enter the US market with a price edge, they can keep pace with international products in quality and enter other markets quickly. So entering the US market is a top priority for Zhongxing.
 
#14 ·
This is great news!

I firmly believe that compact, 4 door pickups is the best vehicle to enter the US market first.

There is vertually no competition, and the bar on refinement and quality is probably the lowest of all vehicle segments.

Make sure the quality, durability, and reliability are all there, with a decent design and great price, add long warranty and maintenance programs, it will be a hit for sure.
 
#15 ·
BringIt said:
I firmly believe that compact, 4 door pickups is the best vehicle to enter the US market first.

There is vertually no competition, and the bar on refinement and quality is probably the lowest of all vehicle segments.
Aside from the Ford Explorer Sport Trac, Chevrolet Colorado (7-year warranty), GMC Canyon (7-year warranty), Toyota Tacoma, Nissan Frontier, Isuzu I-Series (10-year warranty)...there's virtually no competition.
 
#17 ·
The Colorado, Canyon, and I-Series are still small pickups.

And the reason why these trucks are moving up in size has much to do with the shrinking market for small pickups...at any price. Just because it's cheap doesn't mean there's a market for it. For $11k, you can get an excellent used small pickup (I even priced a new Isuzu I-Series for $11,800) or a very good used full-sized pickup. Why would someone forego the added utility (and that is what these buyers want) for the "newness" of a truck from an untested brand name?
 
#18 ·
The small truck market is shrinking because there's no profit for these giant car companies. That's the bottom line. Why do you think DCX is looking at Chery for a small car?

Buy used vs new? That applies to any vehicle segment - why would people buy a Kia when an used Honda may be better? People just do. I for one don't like used vehicles.

Imagine a well built 4 door compact pickup starting at $8900 with a great warranty? And a fully loaded 4X4 with a V6 for $14900? I think that would easily crack the market - better chance than any other vehicle segment.

Isuzu is still in business???
 
#19 ·
Let's see....small truck market is shrinking because nobody (not a significant number of buyers) wants a tiny truck. The Ranger's cheap and small...and sales are dropping. Bring in an old-technology Chinese small truck and it will be no better, but the Ranger has 3,000 dealers with a known history.

New vs used is becoming a tougher and tougher thing since late model used vehicles today are of a higher quality than NEW vehicles of just 20 years ago. So if you can get a used 50,000-mile F150 for the price of a new little Chinese truck, which do you think the market will prefer? And Kia sells a few hundred thousand vehicles because they're decent products for their price...they're competing with NEW cars more than used ones.

Imagine a well-equipped 11,000-mile Ford F150 for $9,000 (I just found it on cars.com). Do you really think a truck buyer would choose a new truck the size of a Ranger for the price of a gently used full-sized pickup? As proof...Isuzu sells only a few hundred I-Series pickups each month at the low prices they have and they carry a 10-year warranty. Price isn't everything.
 
#20 ·
Again, I do not believe no one wants small trucks, especially with the gas prices these days. They don't buy small trucks because there are no good choices. The major car makers simply abandoned this segment because they don't make any money at all. The Ranger is dying because it's just way too old, and the price is not that much cheaper than a F-150, which Ford can build for the same money and promotes heavily (when's the last time you seen a Ranger commercial?)

Remember just a few years back everyone wrote off the small car market? Small cars were ugly and unattractive (remember the Echo?) Now with gas prices going thru the roof and a new wave of smartly designed small cars, the segment is booming.

Same thing can be done to the small truck market. A smart and attractively designed, robust and reliable, well priced entry would do quite well. (Again, keep in mind of the gas prices. Without that factor, small trucks or cars would not fly in the US market.)

Let's see, do I want a gas guzzling, used F-150, about to run out of warranty, with funny dog pee smell and unknown stains on the seats, OR I could have a small 4 door pickup, with that brand new car smell, backed by a 10 year warranty, do much better on gas, all for the same $9000? I'd take the new truck thank you very much.
 
#21 ·
ZX warranty for Grand Tiger

BringIt said:
........I could have a small 4 door pickup, with that brand new car smell, backed by a 10 year warranty...... I'd take the new truck thank you very much.

From the CHAMCO website:

"ZXAUTO NA's SUV and pickup products offer a strong minimum 3-year/36,000-mile limited warranty program as well as a 495 Toyota-type 160-horsepower turbo-charged fuel injection engine (subject to change), currently projected to provide 25–30 miles per gallon fuel efficiency."

Oh by the way what's a "495 Toyota-type 160-horsepower turbo-charged fuel injection engine" ????
 
#22 ·
BringIt said:
Again, I do not believe no one wants small trucks, especially with the gas prices these days. They don't buy small trucks because there are no good choices. The major car makers simply abandoned this segment because they don't make any money at all. The Ranger is dying because it's just way too old, and the price is not that much cheaper than a F-150, which Ford can build for the same money and promotes heavily (when's the last time you seen a Ranger commercial?)

Remember just a few years back everyone wrote off the small car market? Small cars were ugly and unattractive (remember the Echo?) Now with gas prices going thru the roof and a new wave of smartly designed small cars, the segment is booming.

Same thing can be done to the small truck market. A smart and attractively designed, robust and reliable, well priced entry would do quite well. (Again, keep in mind of the gas prices. Without that factor, small trucks or cars would not fly in the US market.)

Let's see, do I want a gas guzzling, used F-150, about to run out of warranty, with funny dog pee smell and unknown stains on the seats, OR I could have a small 4 door pickup, with that brand new car smell, backed by a 10 year warranty, do much better on gas, all for the same $9000? I'd take the new truck thank you very much.
The Ranger (and Mazda B-Series) is thousands of dollars less expensive than an F-Series, as are the GM triplets (Chevrolet Colorado, GMC Canyon, Isuzu I-Series). Even with the 4-door Isuzu being sold with a 10-year warranty and a price well under $15,000, sales are still pitiful.

Gas prices are far from "going thru the roof" and the compact car market is doing well, but it's not "booming." Other than Scion's 150,000 additional sales, what vehicle is "booming" in that segment? Yaris? Echo sold very well in its first years too. Aveo? The Metro sold very well in its first years.

Pickups are, for the most part, designed to work. Some casual buyers are realizing that and moving to cars and "crossovers." And the people who actually use their trucks would rather have a full-sized pickup (a V6 F150 gets only slightly less mileage than a V6 Ranger) or at minimum a mid-sized pickup from Dodge or Toyota. There's little or no demand for a pickup smaller than those trucks in the US. If Subaru's Baja had been a bigger seller, I might be convinced otherwise. But I just don't see it.

As for price, off-lease F150s can be found clean (no dog pee) with plenty of mileage left on them. An F150 will routinely run well over 100,000 miles without a major problem...who's going to believe that a "no-name" brand from a country that has never sold a vehicle in the US will do the same on their first try? And who will repair it when something does go wrong?
 
#23 ·
Now try and sell that brand new 4 door Isuzu for $10,000 - you don't think they can sell 100,000 of them a year? Same with the Subaru's Baja (the styling is aweful I know). You'd be crazy not to.

In my mind, this "small truck" entry from a Chinese truck maker, must meet any and all minimum requirements to enter the US market. With that said, we don't need to worry about service and parts - those demands will be met. The truck will have to be modern and well-built, with as many parts already available on the market as possible - such as piston rings and gaskets. A crappy product is simply not acceptable here, the success of any strategy depends on it. The size should be similar to last gen Toyota Tacoma.

Small car segment is not booming?!? The segment is up some 15+% in some reports I've seen, while the overall market is down. Even the about to be redesigned Corolla is setting records. Good luck trying to buy a Yaris or Fit. You mentioned Scion - now imagine Scion coming out with a hot uni-body compact pickup, inline with the rest of the lineup, with tons of personalization parts and a low price - I'd think that would sell very well.

Yes, the gas price has come down from the $3+ we paid in CA over the summer, but people are shell-shocked and everyone understands that we will again see $3 soon, if not $4. The "casual" buyers of trucks, which is about 70% of them, are switching out of trucks because they don't have a choice.

I don't know where you live, but from where I stand, I can see a lot of first time car buyers, young people, low-income folks, people who want a second or third car, or want something to haul or tow their toys around (such as dirt bikes or jet ski) to be interested in a well-built and well-backed brand new compact pickup starting under $9,000 and fuel efficient. Selling 100,000 a year is not out of the question.

Used cars outsell new ones by 3 to 1. So for every 3 people who would choose a used truck, 1 would choose a new one. Yeah, plenty of people would take your used F-150, but there will be folks who would take my new truck instead for the same money.

I don't disagree that there will be challenges. But I still believe this is the easiest vehicle segment for the Chinese cars to enter. If Chinese car makers can't even successfully enter this segment, they shouldn't come to the US market at all.

Btw, if you don't think this is the easiest segment, please suggest which one is...?
 
#24 ·
BringIt said:
Now try and sell that brand new 4 door Isuzu for $10,000 - you don't think they can sell 100,000 of them a year? Same with the Subaru's Baja (the styling is aweful I know). You'd be crazy not to.
No...I don't think that, and it's my job to study such things. If a four-door Isuzu could sell 100,000 copies at $10,000, they'd sell more than the 6-7k a year at just a couple thousand dollars more.

Buyers want to know that they can get service (which a new brand cannot guarantee)...and a used car already has a dealer network available. Buyers want to know that the truck will have some value in five years...ask Daewoo buyers what their cars are worth today. All these things point to a new Chinese truck NOT reaching 100,000 units of sales in the first few years of sales in the US.

American trucks are better equipped than the Chinese trucks. They're better quality. And they don't get taxed with a 25% tariff (which Chinese trucks would get).
 
#25 ·
The Isuzu is a Chevy/GMC knockoff, so no one in their right mind would buy a Chevy re-badged as an Isuzu (it's like a downgrade), that's where this particular problem lies. Now, how many Chevy/GMC/Isuzu sells in a year? Yes, a lot. Now reduce the price to $10,000... they'd flying off the shelves.

Again, you're talking about dealer network and maintenance/repair services - I've said it's a given that whoever comes to this market, in any vehicle segment, must have this area covered, so it's a moot point. Ask Daewoo buyers? Why not ask Kia and Hyundai buyers?

The 25% truck tariff only applies to 2 door single cab trucks (I'm pretty sure of it). That's why I keep saying a "4 door truck", and the truck can't be something right off the Chinese market, it has to be a design up to US standards - so we can assume it will be nicely designed, engineered, and equipped.

Finally, my whole point in all of my posts in this thread is that the compact pickup is the easiest vehicle segment for the Chinese car makers to enter the US market. All of the points you raised, about quality, reputation, dealer network, resale value, used vs new, etc. applies to any vehicle segment, so again, they're moot points. Chinese car makers will need to face those obstacles no matter what vehicle segment they enter first.

So one more time - I think compact pickup is the easiest segment to enter first and I gave my reasons. Which segment do you think would be easier or more ideal? Please provide your reasons and rationale.
 
#26 ·
BringIt said:
The Isuzu is a Chevy/GMC knockoff, so no one in their right mind would buy a Chevy re-badged as an Isuzu (it's like a downgrade), that's where this particular problem lies. Now, how many Chevy/GMC/Isuzu sells in a year? Yes, a lot. Now reduce the price to $10,000... they'd flying off the shelves.
Technically, Chevrolet and GMC are knockoffs of the Isuzu pickup since Isuzu designed the truck in the first place. The Isuzu is already under $12,000 in transaction prices for extended cab pickups and a little more for crew cabs, they carry a much better warranty than the Chevrolet/GMC (making the GM brands a downgrade), and they sell far fewer than 10,000 units a year. The ONLY reason why Chevrolet and GMC are clearing 165,000 trucks a year is because they have somewhere above 5,000 dealers selling them, which brings us to the next point...
BringIt said:
Again, you're talking about dealer network and maintenance/repair services - I've said it's a given that whoever comes to this market, in any vehicle segment, must have this area covered, so it's a moot point. Ask Daewoo buyers? Why not ask Kia and Hyundai buyers?
Yes, they "must have this area covered," which they won't. It has taken Kia 14 years to build their current dealership network and they have no vehicles sold in volumes over 100,000 units a year. Hyundai has over two decades in the US and they have one 100,000-unit model. Unless you're talking 20 years after model introduction, my bet is against Zhongxing selling 100,000 of any model in the US in a year.

I pointed to Daewoo because Hyundai and Kia actually have some resale value. Daewoo does not. Yugo didn't. Price alone does not sell a vehicle, and I can almost guarantee that a $10,000 four-door pickup from China will compete more with 4-year old (or more probably 6-year old) used pickups. I can't imagine any significant number of new-truck buyers seriously considering a $10,000 "small" pickup from an unknown manufacturer when a $12,000 Isuzu or $15,000 Ford/Chevrolet is available with more cargo capacity and proven track records...and documented resale values.

BringIt said:
The 25% truck tariff only applies to 2 door single cab trucks (I'm pretty sure of it). That's why I keep saying a "4 door truck", and the truck can't be something right off the Chinese market, it has to be a design up to US standards - so we can assume it will be nicely designed, engineered, and equipped.
Actually the tariff applies to "trucks," 2-door, extended cab, or 4-door pickups and even commercial vans. There was even a point where 2-door SUVs were considered to be trucks under the same regulation.

BringIt said:
So one more time - I think compact pickup is the easiest segment to enter first and I gave my reasons. Which segment do you think would be easier or more ideal? Please provide your reasons and rationale.
You're probably right that this would be the easiest to enter. My point is that "easiest" doesn't equate to "easy." All of the obsticles I've mentioned are huge which is why the number of new light-vehicle manufacturers entering the US market in the past 20 years can be counted on one hand.
 
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