[Raul]

"The National Development and Reform Commission (NDRC) released a second list of vehicles meeting the national standard on limits of fuel consumption for passenger vehicles. A total of 2,374 models from 95 manufacturers meet the standard. Vehicles failing the limits reached 444 models from 55 car makers, and will be removed from the market.

Some experts applauded the government's move of announcing the lists, saying it will force car makers to eliminate outdated products and boost new technology for higher fuel efficiency. NDRC is currently working on a national standard on fuel economy of automobiles, and will soon announce the limits for light commercial vehicles, said the watchdog.

Moreover, energy consumption limits will soon enter their second stage, in which the current limits will be reduced by a further 10 percent. The second stage of the implementation is set to take effect on January 1, 2008 for newly designed passenger models and on January 1, 2009 for passenger vehicles already on the assembly line.

NDRC published in October 2006 the first list of newly designed vehicles up to the criteria of fuel consumption limits, in which all the 409 models from 34 producers met the requirements. Among the models announced recently, more than 10 percent of them failed to meet the limits, including sedans, multi-purpose vehicles, minibus, and light coaches."

-- China Daily --

------------------------

It would be interesting to see a list of these 'polluting' vehicles. I think this shows that China is serious about its pollution problems.

 

[mememe]

Nice move !

 

[jmsteiny]

Great move..............

Yes, I think that China is VERY serious about getting these pollution belching vehicles off the road. It's interesting...........many of the new cars being sold now have little stickers in their back windows that say "Euro III compliant" or something to that effect. And, if there aren't stickers on the car itself, then the showrooms are making it a advertising point!! China is facing up to the fact that it CANNOT have all these cars on the road unless these cars are performing up to "modern" standards (which will REALLY happen in a couple of years when all new chinese cars are required to meet Euro IV standards). China doesn't necessarily want to stop consumers from buying cars - the government simply wants the consumer to buy cars that don't emit much pollution.

Alas..................it would be nice if the USA could follow suit. CAFE standards in the USA are pretty much a joke, because of the loophole that trucks fall through. I know that emission standards in the USA are fine, but does that really help much when you've got Hummers and Ford Excursions on the streets that get UNDER 10 miles per gallon?? How about motorcycles that have BIGGER engines than most of the small cars on chinese (or japanese or even european) streets?? WAKE UP, America - do you REALLY need these behemoths?? For the people who REALLY need 4 wheel drive, fine - buy a Subaru or at least something like a Ford Escape. If you REALLY need the extra power that a HUGE engine provides (like towing a boat or in the heavy construction business), fine - but if you are a soccer mom or someone who just wants to look cool in your big SUV, WAKE UP. I know..........these people will come right back and say "it's MY right to drive whatever car I want - if I want to spend the extra money on gas it's MY choice". Well, here's something to consider - it's ALSO your choice to BE MORE RESPONSIBLE and and think "do I REALLY need this huge vehicle???" You need to answer this question - am I part of the PROBLEM or part of the SOLUTION? The REST of the world seems to get along just fine driving smaller cars that emit LESS pollution and get BETTER gas mileage.........you can too.

The funniest part (or maybe the saddest part depending on how you look at it) of all of this..........while the USA continues to emit more pollution than any other country on the planet they ALSO continue to be the biggest complainers about other countries and their pollution!! Hopefully this will change once George Dubya is finally out of office, and we get a president that truly understands the seriousness of pollution and global warming.

OK people, go ahead and tear me apart........but think about this before you do - am I WRONG about any of this?? Am I being unreasonable? Am I saying something that many people haven't already said? I don't think so.

 

[ash]

good just cuz ppl have lots of money to spend on high feul cars doesnt mean they should be killing our environment

 

[RCtennis3811]

Well the problem with your statement jmsteiny is that it IS people's rights to buy large vehicles. However, the main reason why they work so well in the US is because we are such a "newly developed" country with wide roads. In Europe and Asia, there are many roads in major cities where a Tahoe could only dream of driving through. Not so in America. Even NYC's roads are wide enough for a Tahoe, and thus people like large cars. You'll find a lot more 4+ lane highways in the US than China, Japan, Italy, France, Great Britain, Australia, etc.

Also from observance, a lot of soccer moms who do drive these large SUVs actually need them. Sure there are many who don't, but the majority do. Most Americans have 2 or more children and a dog, so of course you'll need room to take the whole family everywhere. SUVs are also especially useful when you have family from out of town, or need to take other people with you someplace.

I'm not advocating we all buy SUVs, but that you can't judge people unless you've been in their position, and most Americans are in the position to buy SUVs because they tend to suit their needs best. If that weren't the case, then the SUV would've died out 10 years ago. Heck, my mom drives an Acura SUV, but I drive a compact MAZDA3 that gets about 27MPG. We just like the SUV for groceries and bringing the whole family out to dinner, etc.

Finally, the US is following suit. In case you didn't know, MPG standards have been set to be raised in a couple of years, and all manufacturers have to comply as usual. In fact, the supplied article at the beginning of this thread doesn't even say what the current fuel consumption rate limit is in China! That's what I want to know - what is the new km/l limit in China.

 

[jmsteiny]

A reasonable man..............

Well the problem with your statement jmsteiny is that it IS people's rights to buy large vehicles. However, the main reason why they work so well in the US is because we are such a "newly developed" country with wide roads. In Europe and Asia, there are many roads in major cities where a Tahoe could only dream of driving through. Not so in America. Even NYC's roads are wide enough for a Tahoe, and thus people like large cars. You'll find a lot more 4+ lane highways in the US than China, Japan, Italy, France, Great Britain, Australia, etc.

RC.....you sound like a reasonable man and I respect what you're saying. You make some great points........some I agree with and some I don't. First, I never contested the fact that it's a person's right to own and drive whatever they choose....of course it is. My point is making the RIGHT choice based on real need, not the need for a trend statement. More on that in a minute.....let's talk about the wide roads. Yes, the USA IS a newly developed country.....but prior to WW2 there were no real "wide" roads yet. This was all a result of the post war economic boom - gas was 10-15 cents a gallon, there was plenty of open space and the only cars available WERE big american cars. It was kind of like saying "we're the biggest and the best" - and we EARNED the right to say that at the time. We just fought and won a war on TWO major fronts (pacific and european) and we had millions of soldiers returning home to re-establish lives, careers and families. In the 1950's and 1960's, this was NO problem. Gas seemed like a endless supply and the wide open highways were.....still wide open. Is that still true today? Do we have wide open highways? Is gas still an endless supply? Yes, it's still an american's choice to drive what they want...........how about thinking about it a little bit and choosing wisely?

Also from observance, a lot of soccer moms who do drive these large SUVs actually need them. Sure there are many who don't, but the majority do. Most Americans have 2 or more children and a dog, so of course you'll need room to take the whole family everywhere. SUVs are also especially useful when you have family from out of town, or need to take other people with you someplace.

This one's pretty simple..........there used to be something called a STATION WAGON. It seemed to work fine for families for years as I recall. Then something came along back in 1991 called the Ford Explorer......and it became more than just a best seller......it became a social statement. All of a sudden EVERYONE had to have one (or so it seemed).....and EVERY company had to make their own version to compete with the Explorer (including Ford......next came the Expedition and then the EXCURSION - THAT was a obscene SUV). RC, I do agree with you......some soccer moms really DO need the space that only a SUV can give.....but only a few. MOST of them could get by just fine with a minivan, station wagon or even one of the "mini SUV's" - and save a LOT of gas as a result. Here's what bothers me the most.....because of the MILLIONS of SUV's on the road nowadays, there is also a LARGE used market for them as well.......so now you're seeing 19-21 year olds saving their money and buying these things second hand BECAUSE IT'S THE COOL THING TO DO. I'm a teacher and I taught high school age kids for years (I still teach that age group here in China)......I've heard SO MANY of the boys (and even girls) talk about how cool it would be to have a Explorer (or Suburban or whatever SUV they preferred) without much regard to the practicality of it. These weren't soccer moms, or people who needed the space or the power of a SUV......these were high school students who thought IT WAS COOL. Ah, the power of effective advertising.............

I'm not advocating we all buy SUVs, but that you can't judge people unless you've been in their position, and most Americans are in the position to buy SUVs because they tend to suit their needs best. If that weren't the case, then the SUV would've died out 10 years ago. Heck, my mom drives an Acura SUV, but I drive a compact MAZDA3 that gets about 27MPG. We just like the SUV for groceries and bringing the whole family out to dinner, etc.

RC, I'm a american - and I lived in the traffic hell known as Los Angeles for many years. I've had enough friends (or associates) buy SUV's, and VERY FEW of them actually used them to their full potential - no real off road (4 wheel driving) action, no families or dogs or soccer kids to carry.....just a single person being seen in a "cool" vehicle. I don't think they bought a car that "suited their needs best"......they were following the social trend. I DO need to applaud you and your mom for driving a GREAT CHOICE in SUV's - the Acura (the MDX I assume)?? MUCH better on gas mileage than most american counterparts, and you use the SUV for what I would consider very practical reasons. If all people thought like you, I don't think we would be having this discussion - you are making the right choice!! Cool choice in the Mazda 3 as well.....we just got that here last year and it's a beautiful looking car!!

Finally, the US is following suit. In case you didn't know, MPG standards have been set to be raised in a couple of years, and all manufacturers have to comply as usual. In fact, the supplied article at the beginning of this thread doesn't even say what the current fuel consumption rate limit is in China! That's what I want to know - what is the new km/l limit in China.

I'm glad to hear that MPG standards are being raised.......but there is (or was) a pretty big loophole with CAFE mileage. It has to do with "carry over credits" that manufacturers can earn on the car side of the equation to offset the penalities they would normally earn with SUV's. IN other words, a manufacturer can sell a 30-35 mpg subcompact, raise their overall corporate average on the car side and apply those credits to not get a penalty (or a lesser penalty) for their big gas guzzling SUV(s). The other thing.....the "penalty" for being under CAFE standards is pretty darn small - and the manufacturers gladly will pay it because of the BIG profit margins SUV's have (they pretty much paid it and laughed all the way to the bank). Here's a QUOTE from the NHTSA regarding CAFE standards..."Since 1983, manufacturers have paid more than $500 million in civil penalties." Great - but how many BILLIONS of dollars has EACH manufacturer made (especially Ford and GM) made in profits?? $500 million is a drop in the bucket - and that's the TOTAL of penalties from ALL domestic manufacturers in the last 24 years.

The tide DOES seem to be turning.........it looks like "small" is becoming popular once again (due primarily because of the rise in gas costs). Having the freedom to choose is a fundamental right of being american......I'm simply advocating the idea that with freedom comes responsibility - the responsibility to chose WISELY. The wide open roads (and cheap gas prices) of the 1950's, 60's and even 70's is GONE. This is the 21st century - the world is different, gas supplies are finite and pollution is threatening the earth's future. The world has often looked at America to set the example in the past......and NOW is the time for America to once again step up to the plate, put it's considerable resources to work and set the example once again with fuel efficient, low pollution, practical vehicles (and alternative fuel vehicles as well) that can serve the needs of consumers. Americans could all be "heroes" if they choose (instead of "save the cheerleader, save the world", it could be "buy a small car, save the world") and the world will applaud. It CAN be done - the question is WHEN??

 

[BringIt]

Please, nearly no one in the US buy new cars based on "need". Get real man. Americans buy new cars based on "want". It's a vain nation indeed.

Need room for the 2 kids and a dog? A Toyota Matrix, Pontiac Vibe, Mazda 5, Kia Rondo, and a load of other compact/midsize wagons/crossovers will do just fine. Yet you see these people in Excursions, Suburbans, and Hummers; WTF???

Worse yet, by far the majority of these ginormous monstrocities are driven by young, single people as a fashion statement, to and back from work or school, or just cruising around endlessly. Can you say retarded?

Next time any of these moronic owners tells you they bought them for practical purposes, slap them in the face and ask them if they've ever heard of a minivan. Even a Dodge Caravan with the short wheelbase has MORE room inside than any of these behemoth SUV's, at 1/2 of the cost and use 50% less fuel. Minivan sales have dropped year after year, what does that tell ya?

Need towing power? Need to haul heavy loads? Unless you do it every week, RENT ONE for the occasion.

Actually, I'm really not against people buying these types of vehicles. Just please use them for their intended purposes, and not use them for the daily commute back and forth from work. That's just plain stupid.

(The US along uses 25% of the the world's oil, 3 times more than the next big user, China. No matter how you dice and slice it, that's gluttony!)

 

[mgrovernut]

I don't have a problem with the SUV. But I think in America in particular there is surely a question about why they need to sell any SUV with an 8 litre V8 or HEMI.

In actual fact the SUV is a good thing in someways. The likes of Land Rover are investing heavily in technology which is currently just too expensive for the average family sized car. But thanks to SUV makers eventually these things will filter down to those cars. The SUV also last's longer than the average car. Land Rover argue theat 2/3'rds of all Land Rovers ever made are still on the road. Once you factor in intial environmental construction costs then the SUV can actually become less damaging than a car like a Micra which may last less than a decade.

As I say the probem in my view is really all about MPG....

 

[cryptonx]

I am glad SUVs are not HYPED here .. at least until now ,thanks to customs , you have to pay %150 taxes on a car with an engine of or more than 2.0L

so Almost all SUVs are like superduperoverdoubled priced here , so No one really think of them except a few .. mafia realted people

the only SUV that is considerable in price , are the ones assembeled locally here , which are the Jeep Liberty / BMW X3 /X5 and the Nissan Ugly X-trail

gas is no problem here , 1 Litre of gas costs = $0.24

 

[Joest]

Does anybody have a list of the car that have been banned in China?

 

[tour4fun]

What is the MPG for cars in China? Let's say a 2.0 litre?

 

[neko]

Wouldn't that be l/km, especially for a 2.0 litre engine.