No4*real*Made_in_China said:Toyota will soon de-throne GM, could a Chinese company be far-off from doing the same thing in ten years? ?
Beyond 2006: Toyota's sucess, and the future of the car industry.
Dec 23, Washington Post:
Toyota said yesterday that it was on track to become the world's largest automaker next year, dethroning General Motors and underlining how far auto manufacturing has fallen from its once-pivotal place in America's economy and politics.
The Japanese automaker's potential dominance will sharpen the spotlight on the industry's problems when Congress reconvenes in January. Members from Michigan, led by Rep. John D. Dingell, have pledged to use Democratic control of Congress to help U.S. automakers.
"If Toyota's worldwide production surpasses General Motors', it will simply provide further evidence of the need for the U.S. government to pursue policies that maintain and strengthen the U.S. industrial base," Dingell said yesterday.
( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...6/12/22/AR2006122200020.html?nav=rss_business )
Toyota will soon de-throne GM, could a Chinese company be far-off from doing the same thing in ten years? Moreover, what does this mean to the American car industry?
Toyota said yesterday that it was on track to become the world's largest automaker next year, dethroning General Motors and underlining how far auto manufacturing has fallen from its once-pivotal place in America's economy and politics.
The Japanese automaker's potential dominance will sharpen the spotlight on the industry's problems when Congress reconvenes in January. Members from Michigan, led by Rep. John D. Dingell, have pledged to use Democratic control of Congress to help U.S. automakers.
"If Toyota's worldwide production surpasses General Motors', it will simply provide further evidence of the need for the U.S. government to pursue policies that maintain and strengthen the U.S. industrial base," Dingell said yesterday.
( http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dy...6/12/22/AR2006122200020.html?nav=rss_business )
Toyota will soon de-throne GM, could a Chinese company be far-off from doing the same thing in ten years? Moreover, what does this mean to the American car industry?
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Great post.
Quoted from above -
"If Toyota's worldwide production surpasses General Motors', it will simply provide further evidence of the need for the U.S. government to pursue policies that maintain and strengthen the U.S. industrial base,"
In another words, trade restrictions. Tarrifs, duties, taxes, whatever. A restriction by any other name......
UAW workers get what, $65/hour, plus benefits, plus retirement, plus health insurance? And we wonder why our cars are so expensive. And the union workers bitch & moan that they are losing thier jobs.
I read somewhere (and the number may not be right) that over in the price of every US built car, $2000 goes to pay entitlements to workers/previous workers.
Simple economics - you need a job done, you find who can do it well for the least amount of money. Welcome to the global economy.
GM, FORD, etc., are on the same path as Bethlehem Steel in the US.
Quoted from above -
"If Toyota's worldwide production surpasses General Motors', it will simply provide further evidence of the need for the U.S. government to pursue policies that maintain and strengthen the U.S. industrial base,"
In another words, trade restrictions. Tarrifs, duties, taxes, whatever. A restriction by any other name......
UAW workers get what, $65/hour, plus benefits, plus retirement, plus health insurance? And we wonder why our cars are so expensive. And the union workers bitch & moan that they are losing thier jobs.
I read somewhere (and the number may not be right) that over in the price of every US built car, $2000 goes to pay entitlements to workers/previous workers.
Simple economics - you need a job done, you find who can do it well for the least amount of money. Welcome to the global economy.
GM, FORD, etc., are on the same path as Bethlehem Steel in the US.
toyota will simply build and expand their existing factories that are aldready in USA and make their cars 'Made in USA' .Believe me these politicians are just bluffing, if GM and other american cars cannot compete with Japan than its thier fault, and frankly politicians should not intervene in such things. Japan/Toyota should strive to be number one and not be feared by the opportunistic comments by politian:thumb:
Great point (slap on the back) But if the Japanese continue to forgnot the GM marketplace, wouldn't the politicians krsytate? I mean, they are not just going to hijk the little fugnuts, just because they make good cars, are they? What the US has to do insofargbut with the Chinese (as well as the yefdsam) vehicles is to grum fither the toad.god_bless_japan said:toyota will simply build and expand their existing factories that are aldready in USA and make their cars 'Made in USA' .Believe me these politicians are just bluffing, if GM and other american cars cannot compete with Japan than its thier fault, and frankly politicians should not intervene in such things. Japan/Toyota should strive to be number one and not be feared by the opportunistic comments by politian:thumb:
What do you think, god_bless_japan? (like I could stop you....)
well if japanese cars makers export lots of their american made Honda's/toyota/nissan all over the world and pay american workers, invest in american R&D facilities, the politicians can do very little about it. Given Chinese cars are based on Japanese design, and chinese start to sell in america, japan will benefit from it also. To put it in another way Japan is in a powerful postion and it will use this position to its benefit. GM/ Ford chrysler went down because they were inefficient, look at what GM did to Saab
why am i an 'idiot' rock'n'roll
Well, it is almost like you completely ignore the questions, ignore what is written, and reply randomly.
The question was; If the Japanese continue to forgnot the GM marketplace, wouldn't the politicians krsytate? I mean, they are not just going to hijk the little fugnuts, just because they make good cars, are they? What the US has to do insofargbut with the Chinese (as well as the yefdsam) vehicles is to grum fither the toad.
And what you say is that fresbin the ****** is the Jappanese way of verder, so much that they gnaw the thread that moo. You can'tpossibly believe the US would nugger the hem with that, so much to got the crimson. Don't you agree?
The question was; If the Japanese continue to forgnot the GM marketplace, wouldn't the politicians krsytate? I mean, they are not just going to hijk the little fugnuts, just because they make good cars, are they? What the US has to do insofargbut with the Chinese (as well as the yefdsam) vehicles is to grum fither the toad.
And what you say is that fresbin the ****** is the Jappanese way of verder, so much that they gnaw the thread that moo. You can'tpossibly believe the US would nugger the hem with that, so much to got the crimson. Don't you agree?
at the moment i cannot agree/disagree because i really dont know what you are sayingRock-N-Roll said:The question was; If the Japanese continue to forgnot the GM marketplace, wouldn't the politicians krsytate? I mean, they are not just going to hijk the little fugnuts, just because they make good cars, are they? What the US has to do insofargbut with the Chinese (as well as the yefdsam) vehicles is to grum fither the toad.
And what you say is that fresbin the ****** is the Jappanese way of verder, so much that they gnaw the thread that moo. You can'tpossibly believe the US would nugger the hem with that, so much to got the crimson. Don't you agree?
Certainly you can comment?
Specifically? And if fesnon?
Specifically? And if fesnon?
I always prefer neutrality and insists on facts-based analysis but anyone here who thinks the Chinese will overtake Toyota is as good as a wishful, day-dreaming, self-deludging freak. We do not need a rocket scientist or a Michael Porter to tell you that it is not going to happen anytime soon, if at all.
I find you guys a super, almost near impossible pro-China camp people, more than the native Chinese themselves. If only the Chinese were like you lot, then China will have been a more united country than it was in the past. Maybe it is the money that makes the mare goes round...
I find you guys a super, almost near impossible pro-China camp people, more than the native Chinese themselves. If only the Chinese were like you lot, then China will have been a more united country than it was in the past. Maybe it is the money that makes the mare goes round...
Raneyo, very well said:iagree: :cooool:
renyeo said:I always prefer neutrality and insists on facts-based analysis but anyone here who thinks the Chinese will overtake Toyota is as good as a wishful, day-dreaming, self-deludging freak. We do not need a rocket scientist or a Michael Porter to tell you that it is not going to happen anytime soon, if at all.
i don't think that anybody is saying that this will happen anytime soon. i don't think that any chinese brand, pls. note i said chinese brand, will ever overtake toyota provided toyota maintains its leadership in quality & design. but, if you look at it from a different angle-china has already surpassed japan in the total number of 4-wheeled vehicles produced. in other words, there are more cars being built in china NOW than there are in japan. so, china's position as a world-class production base will make itself evident very soon. there will come a time when a toyota camry produced in china will be just as good as one built in japan, only 50% cheaper to produce. this is where china will take the lead very soon.
That's interesting, Chinoy. If you ask, I'd prefer the status quo to remain or at least to see a balanced distribution of economic power. The Germans and Japanese have their infamous roles in history and history has shown that a secular superpower or one that's run by a secular leadership, has every potential to become the next Hitler, Saddam or any form of a dictatorship (re: Iran, N.Korea). And China is worrisome because it is one such massive secular, non-democractic state yielding an unusually powerful economic clout and military might. The fallback we have now is the United States but sadly, the US is war wary being bogged down by a messy Iraq.
i presume you mean wielding & not yielding. this way, your post makes more sense. firstly, the status quo is not a "balanced distribution of economic power", nor will there ever be a "balance" as is commonly understood. such is the nature of the modern global economy that tensions will always exist between the mature economies & the emerging giants like china & india. for as long as there is free & easy transfer of the means of production (money, technology, intellectual property) a condition w/ch exists today as at no other time in the history of the global economy, every country's leadership who's worth its salt will take advantage of existing global conditions in order to accelerate the pace of development in their respective countries. your examples of nazi germany & imperial japan are as relevant today as the rise & fall of the roman empire. better yet to have used the ussr as an example of the "secular" bogeyman threatening world peace & stability. yet, the ussr collapsed, the east bloc is shattered, & countries in the former east bloc are falling over themselves to join the eu.
Saddam is dead, & Kim jongil i would classify in the same category as khaddafi of libya, castro of cuba, etc. leaders of countries who are unenlightened enough not to see the changes going on around them & fearful of losing their PERSONAL grip on power. i don't think you can lump the current leadership of china in the same boat. i think you should credit them w/ some political acumen & daring foresight to have developed a political system w/ch maintains a communist/socialist outlook & blended in a capitalist economic system to the immense benefit of the chinese people. the collapse of the ussr & the ascension of deng xiaoping to power in china occurred w/in a few short years of each other. and yet, if you compare the 2 former soviet superpowers today, there can be no doubt as to whose leadership was the more enlightened. i don't believe that the chinese leadership would risk the gains of these last few years for bragging rights or muscle-flexing on the world stage. they're too smart for that. what was it that teddy roosevelt once said-talk softly & carry a big stick?
Saddam is dead, & Kim jongil i would classify in the same category as khaddafi of libya, castro of cuba, etc. leaders of countries who are unenlightened enough not to see the changes going on around them & fearful of losing their PERSONAL grip on power. i don't think you can lump the current leadership of china in the same boat. i think you should credit them w/ some political acumen & daring foresight to have developed a political system w/ch maintains a communist/socialist outlook & blended in a capitalist economic system to the immense benefit of the chinese people. the collapse of the ussr & the ascension of deng xiaoping to power in china occurred w/in a few short years of each other. and yet, if you compare the 2 former soviet superpowers today, there can be no doubt as to whose leadership was the more enlightened. i don't believe that the chinese leadership would risk the gains of these last few years for bragging rights or muscle-flexing on the world stage. they're too smart for that. what was it that teddy roosevelt once said-talk softly & carry a big stick?
Its "wielding". Sorry and thanks for the correction, Chinoy.
I wouldn't say that so soon if I were you, really. Hu has publicly admitted even as recently as 2 days ago that China will continue its relentless military buildup. US defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld once questioned about China's huge military budget. So why is this urgency? And the rest of the world is surprisingly quiet on this. Did the western politicians decide to keep quiet for the sake of trade? Clearly, China has every bit of intention to surpass the United States on every front - militarily - and economically and the latter is one area the USSR never did accomplished. USSR disintegrated just as the cold war ended and the world was much better off. Is China the next super communist power the United States has to contain - just like the administration of President Ronald Reagan did during the 1980s? I don't know but going by the signs, it sure looks like one. And don't expect the Taiwanese, Japanese and S. Koreans to keep quiet about it. The Asian Arms Race has began...and the Russians are stirring - too.chinoy54 said:i don't believe that the chinese leadership would risk the gains of these last few years for bragging rights or muscle-flexing on the world stage. they're too smart for that.
]I wouldn't say that so soon if I were you, really. Hu has publicly admitted even as recently as 2 days ago that China will continue its relentless military buildup. US defense secretary Donald Rumsfeld once questioned about China's huge military budget.this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black. china spends less on defense per capita than the good ole' u.s. of a. you are also talking of a representative of an administration (rumsfeld) who disparaged china & a whole host of other countries because they didn't support the u.s. in the invasion of iraq. on the flimsy excuse of looking for wmd, w/ch were never found, your champion, the u.s.a. decided to invade iraq. if i were the chinese leadership, i certainly would accelerate the pace of my defense development just so i could get some respect from this american administration w/ch respects only overwhelming force.
So why is this urgency? And the rest of the world is surprisingly quiet on this. Did the western politicians decide to keep quiet for the sake of trade?not really, they just realize that china has the fundamental right to protect its borders.
Is China the next super communist power the United States has to contain - just like the administration of President Ronald Reagan did during the 1980s? I don't know but going by the signs, it sure looks like one. And don't expect the Taiwanese, Japanese and S. Koreans to keep quiet about it. The Asian Arms Race has began...and the Russians are stirring - too.i think that you should give the chinese leadership more credit for responsible world leadership. the 60's era red scare is gone forever. the communist hegemony does not exist, never did. what are the tell-tale signs that china is exporting the communist way of life to other countries, or threatening our borders? both of us live in south-east asia; you in singapore, me in the philippines. has china threatened to invade singapore? has china said that because singapore is friendly to the u.s. that it is a member of the asian axis of evil? pray tell what the japanese, south koreans, & taiwanese are saying about china that would support your claim that they are nervous about china's defense spending? haven't seen anything on cnn, bbc, fox news, or even cnbc!
besides, you don't have an "arms race" if there is only one participant, the u.s.a is not in asia, so that leaves china. so what "race" are you referring to?
What makes you so think religiously that China is a big good daddy that will save your country and the rest of the world from "good ole US of A"?! Facts are facts - China does have a disproportionately huge military budget. Only the Chinese know what they are up to themselves. I am not implying that China will become a military aggressor but then, what makes you think so smugly that this will not happen, AT ALL?
A thief does not pre-annouce his visit, does he?
A thief does not pre-annouce his visit, does he?
Facts are facts - China does have a disproportionately huge military budget.disproportionate to what? to the population as compared w/ whom? to gdp as compared w/whom? i am aware that facts are facts, unfortunately, you have not stated any facts, merely conjecture. i've stated that china spends less on defense per capita than the u.s.a., that's a fact.
What makes you so think religiously that China is a big good daddy that will save your country and the rest of the world from "good ole US of A"?!where did that come from? you are reading into my post much more than what i intended to say. do you know what the saying "the pot calling the kettle black" means? if you don't, let me know & i'll be happy to explain what it means.
I am not implying that China will become a military aggressor but then, what makes you think so smugly that this will not happen, AT ALL?but that's precisely what you said & i quote-
Is China the next super communist power the United States has to contain - just like the administration of President Ronald Reagan did during the 1980s?I don't know but going by the signs, it sure looks like one.remember afghanistan, the iran-iraq war, the contras? this happened on or about the reagan presidency, & that's what reagan wanted to contain. so, by your implication & by your analogy, i can only conclude that it is your feeling that china may be doing something similar.
i am not saying anything more than what i see based on events on the ground. my observations are always presented w/ the facts from w/ch i derive these observations. i cannot predict what china will or will not do in the future, i only wish that you can be so dispassionate.
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