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Discussion Starter · #41 ·
KING_OF_HILL said:
There is nothing high quality about hundai/kie, they are mediocre at the best.
I am basing this on the Consumer Report's latest long term reliability report.

Cheery said:
I think the culture may have played a big part here. Heard that in Korea, seniority is such a big deal that you should not out-drive your boss, or anyone with a higher position in your work, etc. For example, when your supervisor drives a Sonata, you better get yourself a Elantra or something like that.
It has nothing to do with culture and everything to do with economics. Hard to afford a bigger vehicle on a salaryman's salary with a punitive auto taxation system(the government really really doesn't want you to own a car, but rather use public transportation system or drive a mini car to save on gas). Those in higher rank either has the company issuing the company car or subsidizing its ownership cost, the lower ranking workers don't get that.
 

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BringIt said:
Hey, you just described ME!

I highly doubt they will sell a fully loaded BS6 in the US for $26K. Everything is more expensive in EU vs US, by as much as 60%.

My guess is the BS6 will sell in the US, fully loaded with leather, moonroof, auto, etc. etc., for less than $20K, along with 10 year warranties, free road side assistance, and free full maintenance.

That's the only way to instill confidence and alleviate concerns in the consumers - the only way to succeed.
Worked for Hyundai (the 10 year warranty part). They were considered a half step above a Yugo when they started in the US in the mid-1980's. Once they started with the ten year warranty, they became a major player. Of course, they have at least an acceptable level of product to back it up.
 

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Oh, and for Hyundai's reliability rating, the current Consumer Reports has the Hyundai nameplate in seventh place, overall, in predicted reliability for new cars. The top six companies are all Toyota or Honda affliates.

In order:

1. Toyota
2. Honda
3. Scion (Toyota's US-only "youth brand")
4. Acura (Honda's luxury brand)
5. Lexus (Toyota's luxury brand)
6. Subaru (Toyota recent bought a 8.7% share of Subaru off of GM)
7. Hyundai

Kia is lower, in 17th place.

Last place (36th) is Mercedes-Benz, which goes to show luxury doesn't equal reliability.
 

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dragin said:
What about going in through Canada and testing the waters there first like Hyundain did? If they go to the US it's got to be right the first time, as Renault, Fiat, Daewoo, Stirling and Daihatsu found out to their peril.
That's a decent idea too. I once heard that Geely was going to try Puerto Rico first, which would be an interesting twist, since cars sold there must meet US standards (it is a US territory after all) but any bad press wouldn't spread to the continental US much. However, the Puerto Rico market is not really a good representative of the continental US market.
 

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AGR said:
China Cars USA nade a presentation to automobile dealers in New York last week, I heard that it was professional, and impressive.
You are probably referring to this report from Peter M. DeLorenzo:

Publisher's Note: I had the pleasure of attending (and speaking at) the Bel Air Partners Elite Dealer Summit in New York last week, a very interesting gathering of top dealers and dealer groups from all over the country. The focus of the meeting was the emerging Chinese automobile industry and the eventual reality of Chinese vehicles being imported here. There were a series of speakers on Thursday and Friday, but by far the most interesting sequence occurred when Malcolm Bricklin did a presentation, followed shortly by a representative from Brilliance China Automotive. Always entertaining and filled with quips and funny lines, Bricklin got up and promised he would be back - this time importing Chinese hybrid vehicles, after first settling his dispute with Chery (Daimler AG waltzed-in and took Chery out from under him, according to Bricklin). All of the usual promises and hype - a Bricklin specialty - were made in vintage loosey-goosey style, and Malcolm even waved around poster boards with artist's rendering of his proposed "world-beater" Chinese car. Of course, he alluded to the fact that he had all of the problems associated with this advanced technology solved and that his partners had figured out the whole battery "thing" and then he was gone, leaving everybody wondering if there was anything there "there" - per usual. But Bricklin's misfortune was that after a break the representative from Brilliance China Automotive got up and proceeded to deliver the most buttoned-up, detailed and seamless presentation you can imagine, delineating every detail from vehicle importation sites, sales regions, product development and testing all the way to product photos and even initial pricing. Everyone in the room couldn't help but be impressed, and everyone in attendance that day knew they were witnessing the beginnings of the first serious Chinese threat to the status quo in the U.S. market. What I also took away from that meeting was that Brilliance China Automotive effectively put an end to Malcolm Bricklin's career. The juxtaposition between the two presenters was painfully striking, with Bricklin and all of his smoke and mirrors bluster going up against a thoroughly detailed presentation perfectly suited to the new century and the global scope of the automobile business. - PMD
 

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Bel Air Partners who is very involved with USA dealers have conferences in the west and east, the east conference this year covered the arrival of Chinese cars.

These conferences are attended by "decision makers" from most of the publicly traded dealer goups.

Peter DeLorenzo was invited to be a guest speaker...that is the article I was referring to.
 

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Hyundai started selling cars in Canada in the mid 80's, they even opened an assembly plant in Quebec at that time. The initial euphoria lasted for a while, then Hyundai receded from the Canadian market and it took a few years to gain momentum again.

Hyundai is attempting to go upstream with their product line to protect themselves from low priced competitors.

The present USA automotive market is "overdealered" which presents a unique opportunity for a "new entrant" to gain a foothold in the market.

Come up with a product that is competitively priced for what it is, offer a free maintenance package for a specific period of time, offer a warranty that instills mid term confidence in the consumer, accompanied by an aggressive financial package.
 

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Discussion Starter · #49 ·
Geotpf said:
Oh, and for Hyundai's reliability rating, the current Consumer Reports has the Hyundai nameplate in seventh place, overall, in predicted reliability for new cars. The top six companies are all Toyota or Honda affliates.
That's why I said there are only two automobile companies that produce more reliable cars that Hyundai does on earth, Toyota and Honda.
 

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The Brilliance Grandeur and Splendor are currently being tested and validated for the EPA/NHTSA by FEV & EDAG in Detroit, Michigan. The emissions, fuel economy, OBD, crash/safety, illumination, chassis interior - exterior are 75% complete and to date the results are "very positive". Brilliance Auto has quietly gone about making the product improvements required to bring high quality sedans into the U.S. market and their efforts are paying off. They have also quietly partnered with key U.S. automotive executives to prepare for the next asian invasion by recruiting the "who's who" of distributors and dealer automotive groups in the U.S.
Without a doubt, Brilliance Auto will be the first to market in the U.S. with over 160 dealers in place by October, 2007. Why haven't you heard about this? "Talk is cheap . . . action speaks louder than words."
There is a lot to be said for Brilliance Auto staying under the radar until it makes a national certification announcement. STAY TUNED!
 

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Nice I love hearing good news from brilliance. I wish the best for brilliance, I know they will do well. They always remember to do their own homeworks although getting help from the German side. Brillance hardly (or never) copy any design from other makes.If brilliance passes all the tests, it can improve the image of Chinese cars in general, hope something like other Chinese will not happen to brilliance. Seriously I see no hope no Chery or Geely, they copy too much and the quality is quite low as well. GO GO GO BRILLIANCE.
 

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dgbhc0 said:
The Brilliance Grandeur and Splendor are currently being tested and validated for the EPA/NHTSA by FEV & EDAG in Detroit, Michigan. The emissions, fuel economy, OBD, crash/safety, illumination, chassis interior - exterior are 75% complete and to date the results are "very positive". Brilliance Auto has quietly gone about making the product improvements required to bring high quality sedans into the U.S. market and their efforts are paying off. They have also quietly partnered with key U.S. automotive executives to prepare for the next asian invasion by recruiting the "who's who" of distributors and dealer automotive groups in the U.S.
Without a doubt, Brilliance Auto will be the first to market in the U.S. with over 160 dealers in place by October, 2007. Why haven't you heard about this? "Talk is cheap . . . action speaks louder than words."
There is a lot to be said for Brilliance Auto staying under the radar until it makes a national certification announcement. STAY TUNED!
They really seems to know what they're doing - I'm very excited about this!

I sincerely hope they cover all grounds and do this right, right off the bat. Good luck!!! I got my check book ready...
 

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Chinese cars are again one step closer reaching US shores :)

http://www.autoblog.com/2007/07/03/brilliance-to-get-a-2008-u-s-debut/

http://www.businessweek.com/magazine/content/07_28/c4042003.htm?chan=search#ZZZKETKVG3F

"Detroit is now bracing for an invasion of Chinese cars. Brilliance China Automotive (CBA ) plans to roll out at least one vehicle in the U.S. next year, with the help of Scottsdale (Ariz.) distributor China Motor, which is expected to showcase its plans in Detroit in July. China Motor is set to launch a $20,000 vehicle, which it has been certifying for U.S. safety and emission requirements. Brilliance is already testing the waters in Europe with a $30,000 sedan and says it will introduce at least two more models there next year.

Other Chinese carmakers are also eyeing the U.S. market. Geely Automotive began testing a $10,000 subcompact in Puerto Rico last year, with the idea of selling it stateside in 2009. And in early June, Hebei Zhongxing Automobile said it hopes to export three vehicles to the U.S. in 2008. It also plans to build a plant in Mexico. There's no certainty that all these deals will gel. But already, about 100 U.S. dealers want to carry Brilliance vehicles, according to China Motor chief David Shelburg. Says Sheldon Sandler, founder of Bel Air Partners, a financial adviser to dealerships: "They don't want to have to say later that they missed out on the next Toyota."


China Motors website: http://autokam.us/
 

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Brilliance not Accepted by US Investors

Brilliance to pull shares from NYSE
By Jin Jing 2007-7-10

BRILLIANCE China Automotive Holdings says it remains confident about an aggressive export plan and its overall future even as it moves to delist its shares from the New York Stock Exchange.

The board members of Brilliance, which started trading on the NYSE in 1992 as the first Chinese automotive company, have reached an agreement to leave the US stock market as a result of declining trade volume and rising administrative costs, according to a statement filed with the Hong Kong Stock Exchange on Thursday.

The NYSE has been notified of the company's intention, Brilliance said in the statement, without providing a timetable for the delisting. The shares will continue to trade on the over-the-counter market.

"Our business will not be affected as most of our shares are traded on the Hong Kong stock market, where investors have more interest in mainland companies," Lisa Ng, vice president of Brilliance China, said in a telephone interview yesterday.

Brilliance China raised US$80 million in its initial public offering in New York in 1992. It began trading shares on the Hong Kong bourse in 1999.

Company shares closed at US$27.76 on Friday, after trading as high as US$29.98 in the past year.

"The car maker is generating less money on the NYSE market because of falling volume despite a climbing trading price," said Duan Chengwu, an auto analyst from Global Insight Co Ltd in Shanghai. "Overseas investors are less interested in Brilliance China, partly because of its low profitability."

The Chinese partner of BMW AG has lost money over the past two years as a result of intensified market competition and declining car prices.

Brilliance reported a loss of 398 million yuan (US$52 million) last year following a loss of US$85 million in 2005.

But the company indicated that it is well on its way to turning itself around after boosting sales of its self-branded models as well as increasing exports to overseas markets.

It has rolled out several passenger cars under its own Zhonghua brand, preparing for sales on the US market as early as 2009 after exporting to the European market last year.

The car maker earlier expects to break even this year after setting a sales target of 300,000 units, an increase of 34 percent from last year.

In its five year plan ended by 2010, Brilliance also aims to double sales to at least 500,000 units with a revenue of 80 billion yuan.

Shanghai Daily
 

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Shifting Gears

Shifting Gears
By GONG ZHENGZHENG(China Daily)
Updated: 2007-07-16 06:44

Brilliance China Auto, the partner of German luxury carmaker BMW, says it plans to make its mark in the United States with its own-brand cars. The move comes on the back of the automaker's recent decision to withdraw its listing on the New York Stock Exchange (NYSE).

The company says that it is in discussions with some unnamed American firms to foray into the world's biggest but most demanding vehicle market.

The first model planned for the US market is a Zhonghua Zunchi 1.8-liter turbo mid-sized sedan, which has passed testing in the country, Brilliance says.

"We believe that we will make some headway in the US soon," it says, without revealing a timeframe and sales goal.

The plan comes on the back of a recent decision to withdraw its American Depositary Shares, which represent 100 ordinary shares per 1 cent of the firm, due to its wilting trade volume and rising administrative costs.

The company surprised the corporate community in China in 1992 when it was registered in Bermuda by its former controversial chairman Yang Rong, and floated in New York.

But the carmaker says it will keep its listing in Hong Kong, which dates back to 1999.

Michael Yang, executive director of NYSE Group Asia-Pacific, sees Brilliance's NYSE delisting plan as nothing strange.

"It's a normal move as the company has been unable to raise enough money (on the NYSE) - although it's a pity for us," Yang says.

Brilliance is already focused on the Hong Kong stock market, which is the biggest overseas stock destination for mainland companies.

Analysts say it will possibly return to the thriving domestic stock market to raise money to fund its expansion in China and overseas.

Brilliance says the US export drive is an important part of its ambitious goal to sell more than 30 percent of its vehicles annually by 2010, up from 3.1 percent last year.

Meanwhile, the company aims to boost its overall sales to 500,000 vehicles from 210,000 units, it says.

In the first half of this year, its sales surged by 57 percent to 146,000 vehicles, including more than 7,000 units sold abroad.

Brilliance is making the Zhonghua sedans and mini-vans under another own-brand Jinbei at its home base in the northeastern city of Shenyang. It also runs a joint venture with BMW in the city, assembling the 3 and 5 Series sedans.

Last December, the Chinese carmaker secured a deal to ship a total of 158,000 sedans to Europe in the next five years.

But it has faced a safety problem in Europe as the BS6 only achieved a rating of one star out of five in a recent crash test by Germany's ADAC auto club, making headlines in German newspapers.

A BS6 dealership in Antwerp, Belgium last week halted sales of the sedan.

Brilliance accused German media of "viciously playing up" the test results, saying it will improve the BS6's quality and strive to reach a rating of three stars within a year.

It stresses that the issue will not affect its plan in Europe and it will further extend its sales and service networks there.

The company is also building a 150,000-unit plant in the smaller southwestern city of Mianyang, partly to further explore the Southeast Asian market.

The new plant, to be operational next year, will make Brilliance's own-brand Jinbei mini-vans, pickups, light trucks and sport utility vehicles.

Brilliance also runs a plant in Vietnam making Jinbei light trucks with kits from China.

The group also has a plant in Egypt to assemble the Zhonghua sedans.

It is building another plant in the Democratic People's Republic of Korea with the Republic of Korea's industrial group PMC to make the Jinbei mini-vans.

Brilliance says it plans to increase the total number of its overseas dealerships to 53 at the end of this year from 41 at present.

A legion of other Chinese carmakers including Chery and Geely are also speeding up their overseas expansions.

China's overall vehicle exports jumped by two-thirds to 188,700 units in the first five months of this year from a year ago, according to industry data.
 

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Rocket Capital Investment is investing US$100 million in Brilliance China

Rocket lifts Brilliance bid to enter US market
Buyout firm to invest US$100m in carmaker
Kandy Wong
Mar 11, 2008
United States private equity group Rocket Capital Investment is investing US$100 million in Brilliance China Automotive Holdings (SEHK: 1114) as part of the mainland carmaker's move to tap the US market
very good news for CBA i think!
 
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