[Real_I_Hate_China]

http://www.shanghaidaily.com/art/20..._funds_to_pave_way_for_US_made_Chery_cars.htm

Chery's US-market program has restarted only after Malcolm's investment banker put the money into the account.

Makes you wonder if Chery is serious about entering the US market; $200 million is a small pocket change in the automotive industry and every single automaker spends it own money totalling billions to set up the dealer network and obtain certifications, but Chery is so cash-poor it has to have $200 million from an outside source to even restart the problem.

Cash-poor Chery's future doesn't look good in the US, where it takes billions of losses to set up and stabilize a distribution network.

 

[oo4load]

They want to set up a joint venture.

There won't be a joint venture if one of the parties (Visionary) doesn't do an initial investment. So they decided to postpone it.
The problem here isn't Chery, it's Visionary.

 

[fightingtorque]

as said above.

visionary wants to be 'the chery people' in USA. Chery wants to be sure they have the resources to do a good job, hence asking them to put their money down.

If visionary hadn't come up with the money, for sure there are others queuing up to be the chery people of usa.

why do you keep saying chery have no money? do you have a copy of their accounts? Do you have inside knowledge into the Anhui Provincial governments plans and policies on further investment into the auto business?

 

[dragin]

Chery's export adventure

for sure there are others queuing up to be the chery people of usa.

?

Hungarian-born George Soros maybe....

 

[cryptonx]

so does this means that FIAT has no money as well ?
it didnt enter the US market till now , altho they are the 9th biggest company on earth . ( wierd tho they have the highest scores in crash test , safest and coolest hatchbacks ever )

so does SEAT, poor seat they have no money at all , ( wierd , Ibiza one of the best selling hatchbacks like the GOLF )

I dont mean that chery is like seat or fiat , not yet , but for a company that does not exist in the US doesnt mean it sucks or it DOESNT HAVE ENOUGH MONEY

KIA new cars ( New Rio / Picanto ) are recieving alot of awards across Europe , yet they were fucked up in the US.

on the other hand, hyundai ugly cars are winning all over the world ,, strange ! i hate almost all of the hyundai line , except the Hyundai Coupe ( Tribeon in US and its a sports car ) and the new SantaFE looks decent

the elantra , even the upcoming 2007 one , the accent , atos/santos , matrix , SUCK , they look worse than cherys cars ! I would proudly buy a Flagcloud with no regrets over the ugly accent or elantra !

Pinnina Farina UGLIEST designs ever ! the Matrix !!! which exactly look like a Basketball Shoe !! for a giant to wear !

what a world !

 

[jmsteiny]

I Love It!!!!!!!

YES!!!!!!! WOOHOO!!!!!!!! THIS IS GREAT!!!!!!! I LOVE seeing my fellow posters ripping into China hater!!! Keep it up guys!!!!!! Don't get me wrong - I don't usually enjoy seeing a bunch of people ripping into someone else - but I am so SICK AND TIRED of China hater posting the CRAP that he posts. He deserves this treatment for posting such misleading information!! Chery is NOT "cash poor", and Visionary investing $200,000,000 was part of the original agreement between Chery and Visionary!!!!

Once you start being more respectful China hater, I am pretty sure the posters here will be more respectful to you. However, I will venture to say that you probably don't CARE how people treat you here........and that is really sad. I believe YOU were the one that started a posting about "no more fighting....let's post some race queen pics"??? Why can't you live by your own words?????????

 

[DOS]

YES!!!!!!! WOOHOO!!!!!!!! THIS IS GREAT!!!!!!! I LOVE seeing my fellow posters ripping into China hater!!! Keep it up guys!!!!!! Don't get me wrong - I don't usually enjoy seeing a bunch of people ripping into someone else - but I am so SICK AND TIRED of China hater posting the CRAP that he posts. He deserves this treatment for posting such misleading information!! Chery is NOT "cash poor", and Visionary investing $200,000,000 was part of the original agreement between Chery and Visionary!!!!

Once you start being more respectful China hater, I am pretty sure the posters here will be more respectful to you. However, I will venture to say that you probably don't CARE how people treat you here........and that is really sad. I believe YOU were the one that started a posting about "no more fighting....let's post some race queen pics"??? Why can't you live by your own words?????????

Nice Post:thumb:
Although I do enjoy seeing my fellow posters ripping into China Hater, we need his biased posts to balance out some of the extreme optimism and attract more people to the forum. Besides, his hatred of China is resultant of many factors beyond Chinese cars and other products. His posts are supported by facts and rather informative, even though his interpretation is squid in a manner to reinforce his own ideas. But the reality is that Visionary Vehicles and any other corporation is using the same tactics, to attract investors, to attract customers, and we must be informed of it and respond to it in a rational manner. The only thing we can do about China Hater is become the bigger man and not follow suit.

 

[gr8]

long story short, eight yuen in china can buy alot more than $1 american.

and this proves it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! china can use little money to do big things

 

[Real_I_Hate_China]

There won't be a joint venture if one of the parties (Visionary) doesn't do an initial investment. So they decided to postpone it.
The problem here isn't Chery, it's Visionary.

So why would Chery be looking for a 3rd party importer if they were serious about the US market? Wouldn't they import the vehicles themselves? What major brand in the US uses a 3rd party importer to import their vehicles?

visionary wants to be 'the chery people' in USA.

This is the misconception Chinese have about Visionary Vehicles; they want to bring the Wal-mart model to auto industry. Visionary Vehicles considers itself a virtual auto manufacturer with an outsourced manufacturing. Chery is seen as nothing but a mere low-cost Chinese contractor supplying vehicles specified by Malcolm Bricklin at "Chinese prices".

Chery wants to be sure they have the resources to do a good job, hence asking them to put their money down.

They how come they are not putting down their own money? $200 million cash from Malcolm's bankers but $0 from Chery.

why do you keep saying chery have no money?

Because Chery has none. At $50 per QQ, Chery has to sell 1 million QQs to make $50 million. That's one hell of a lousy business model to others.

 

[gr8]

Yo hater, this is not the first time i used the shenzhou project as an example for the chinese being able to do alot with little money. so what if they have little money, they can do alot with it. a small amount of gold can worth more than alot of iron.

 

[Real_I_Hate_China]

Yo hater, this is not the first time i used the shenzhou project as an example for the chinese being able to do alot with little money. so what if they have little money, they can do alot with it. a small amount of gold can worth more than alot of iron.

When Cherys are being developed with Austrian engine engineers, Korean chassis engineers, and Italian stylists, Chery needs to pay them a foreigner's wage, not a Chinese wage.

 

[cryptonx]

I think they should pay LESS for koreans chasis , they nag alot and bitch alot ( we have the perfect example , you )

 

[fightingtorque]

So why would Chery be looking for a 3rd party importer if they were serious about the US market? Wouldn't they import the vehicles themselves? What major brand in the US uses a 3rd party importer to import their vehicles?
.

You answered your own question really. You can enter a new market by being better, by being cheaper, or by being different.

I think you would agree it is unlikely chery will succeed by trying to suggest their product is better than the eastablished guys. Purely by being cheaper isn't usually a successful model for a new entrant (although in this case they have a better cost structure so it could work). They need to be different. One of those differences is the way they will sell the cars - different dealership setup in which the dealers also own part of the car manufacturing business. Which is why Bricklin's organisation needs to put some cash down.

Chery will also invest into the joint venture, I am not sure of the details but I think they will invest the one of their factories into it.

 

[Real_I_Hate_China]

They need to be different. One of those differences is the way they will sell the cars - different dealership setup in which the dealers also own part of the car manufacturing business.

You cannot sell the car no matter how flashy your showroom is, if the car itself sucks. And Cherys simply are not competitive in the US market.

Which is why Bricklin's organisation needs to put some cash down.

My question is why Malcolm Bricklin instead of Chery USA?
Even Geely has its US headquarter set up(aka Geely USA).

Chery will also invest into the joint venture, I am not sure of the details but I think they will invest the one of their factories into it.

Exactly, their paper assets but no cold hard cash. Like Chery IP valued at $500 million, cough cough.

 

[jmsteiny]

[QUOTE=Real_I_Hate_China]You cannot sell the car no matter how flashy your showroom is, if the car itself sucks. And Cherys simply are not competitive in the US market.

First of all, how can you POSSIBLY KNOW that Cherys are not competitive in the US market?? THEY HAVEN'T EVEN STARTED TO SELL THEM YET FOR YOU TO MAKE THAT ASSUMPTION!! You CANNOT base your conclusion on existing Chery models - MOST of the cars that Chery is bringing to the US market are BRAND NEW MODELS. Chery (and Geely as well) are VERY MUCH aware of the need to upgrade their quality standards in order to be competitive in the US market, and are working hard to do exactly that. News flash, China hater - the executives at Chery and Geely can read the J.D. Power studies JUST AS EASILY as you and I can!!


My question is why Malcolm Bricklin instead of Chery USA?
Even Geely has its US headquarter set up(aka Geely USA).

Let's remember that Geely "marches to the beat of a different drummer" - they are the ONLY privately owned auto company in China. Geely's decision to show the CK at the Detroit auto show was a good one - it generated a LOT of media buzz and put Geely's name "on the map", so to speak. Geely ALSO made it clear that the model(s) that are going to be sold in the US are NOT currently existing models, but new generation, higher quality versions.

Exactly, their paper assets but no cold hard cash.
Like Chery IP valued at $500 million, cough cough.[/QUOTE]


Come on......the answer is SO obvious!! Chery (and Geely) are both companies that are LESS THAN TEN YEARS OLD!! They have both taken most of their profits and invested in expansion and R&D - building new factories and developing new models takes cold, hard cash!! And DON'T throw the Matiz story at me...........we both already know all about that and YES, Chery was wrong to do it that way. HOWEVER, the Windcloud, S12, A5, S21 (as well as the Geely MR, FC-1 and others) are in house designs........and let us NOT forget that the Geely CK is a result of co-operation with KOREAN car companies (oh my god.........Chinese and Koreans working together - what a concept)!!

 

[cryptonx]

good looking cars , cheap or reasonable prices and spare parts , good quality and good engines

koreans / chinese / indian / taliban ! martian

Will always be a good to go for me .

 

[AXLE]

Id love to see a martian car although it would probably be a space ship.

 

[Real_I_Hate_China]

First of all, how can you POSSIBLY KNOW that Cherys are not competitive in the US market??

By looking at the models sold in China now.

All Cherys priced above 100,000 Yuan flopped badly, including The Son Of Orient, Tiggo, and New Crossover. Chery is a QQ company.

You CANNOT base your conclusion on existing Chery models - MOST of the cars that Chery is bringing to the US market are BRAND NEW MODELS.

Which is riskier because they are unproven. Most Japanese and Korean companies prefer to keep their brand new models at home for the first couple years for the debugging purpose.

News flash, China hater - the executives at Chery and Geely can read the J.D. Power studies JUST AS EASILY as you and I can!!

And those Chinese executives are wondering how the other guys are getting two digit scores, while their best models hover above 400.

My question is why Malcolm Bricklin instead of Chery USA?
Even Geely has its US headquarter set up(aka Geely USA).

Geely ALSO made it clear that the model(s) that are going to be sold in the US are NOT currently existing models, but new generation, higher quality versions.

Chery and Geely's small economy of scale does not allow this. What Chery and Geely hope to sell are federalized versions of whatever they were selling in China at the time of US launch.

Come on......the answer is SO obvious!! Chery (and Geely) are both companies that are LESS THAN TEN YEARS OLD!!

Last time a new manufacturer successfully entered the US market was 21 years ago. The door of entry already closed since.

They have both taken most of their profits and invested in expansion and R&D

A drop in the bucket next to what global majors are spending annually.

 

[jmsteiny]

Weak comeback.............

It's REALLY amusing reading your latest post, China hater......you're starting to scramble when it comes to responses. As far as Chery's new models are concerned........they have ALL been well reviewed here in China (especially the Tiggo) and they are catching on with the buying public. They are NEW models, you see - and if you were ACTUALLY HERE IN CHINA you would UNDERSTAND HOW the buying public researches and buys cars!! However, you choose to sit behind your computer and simply read reports from the internet - and UNTIL YOU DECIDE to actually SEE FOR YOURSELF WHAT IS GOING ON HERE, you will NEVER REALLY UNDERSTAND. NOTHING will EVER take the place of real world experience, and you know that as well as me - you are not a stupid person (your postings, while insulting, DO show a high degree of intelligence).

As far as Chery introducing new "unproven" models to the american market.........what do you think the american companies do RIGHT NOW? Yes, the american companies DO have a more extensive servicing system in place, no arguement there - but Chery is NOT stupid. They ALSO know that they will have to have the facilities ready for servicing as well (hence Malcolm Bricklin's preparation of having dealers lined up and ready to go). The Chinese car companies are also using the results of the J.D. Power survey as motivation - most of the "big" companies are re-vamping their assembly lines with substantial robotics, lower tolerance levels and a overall higher degree of quality. They KNOW they have to get the numbers down to a competitive level.......but let's remember one thing. The J.D. Power numbers are for IQS - "INITIAL QUALITY SURVEY". If you WERE HERE in China, you WOULD see for yourself how many Cherys and Geelys are still on the road 3, 4 and 5 years later - that tells me that these cars are built decently and can withstand the test of time. I AM NOT trying to say that these cars are better than american or japanese or korean counterparts.........but I AM trying to say that these cars are BETTER than you give them credit for.

I could continue on with my rebuttal, but my final point is this - I am ACTUALLY here IN China. I HAVE seen with my own eyes how much the Chinese car companies have improved in a VERY short time. I HAVE driven Chinese cars and can testify to their driveability and worthiness. I also have some pretty good benchmarks to compare them to........I owned a Acura Integra and before that a Honda Civic when I was still in the USA. I have also driven many of my friends cars as well in the USA - Toyota pickups, Nissan Altimas, even a Scion Tc.........and I am telling you that the Chinese cars being manufactured RIGHT NOW are in the ballpark. OK, maybe in the outfield while the current offerings in the USA are at home plate - but 3 years ago the chinese cars were barely in the parking lot!! Can YOU say that? No, you can't - because you have NEVER been here. You have NEVER driven a Chinese car, and unless you were at the Detroit auto show you have never even SEEN a Chinese car in person. Fine, you can say that you don't WANT to come here.......that's up to you. Just STOP trying to pass yourself off as someone who KNOWS what is going on with Chinese cars........because the simple fact is - YOU DON'T. I am the first to admit I DON'T know everything about them either........but I DO know what I have seen, touched, driven and experienced. Go ahead, send your rebuttal - but until you can tell me that you have ACTUALLY sat behind the wheel and driven a Chinese car your postings will mean very little to those of us who HAVE.

 

[Real_I_Hate_China]

As far as Chery's new models are concerned........they have ALL been well reviewed here in China (especially the Tiggo)

Because Chinese reviewers don't know what's out there. Those reviewers never drove a RAV4. Couldn't possibly write a favorable review after driving the real thing back to back.

They are NEW models

Strongly resembling a discountined Toyota model, of course.

and if you were ACTUALLY HERE IN CHINA you would UNDERSTAND HOW the buying public researches and buys cars!!

The profile of a typical Chinese car buyer.

1. A first time car buyer.
2. Doesn't know what to look for in an automobile, since he/she never drove before.
3. Extremely price-sensitive.
4. Bigger car dimension emphasized over performance.

However, you choose to sit behind your computer and simply read reports from the internet - and UNTIL YOU DECIDE to actually SEE FOR YOURSELF WHAT IS GOING ON HERE, you will NEVER REALLY UNDERSTAND.

Since the brands that dominate Chinese market are the same brands sold here, there is no misunderstanding. Chinese cars of 2006 = 20 year old beat Toyotas in terms of quality and performance.

They ALSO know that they will have to have the facilities ready for servicing as well (hence Malcolm Bricklin's preparation of having dealers lined up and ready to go).

Malcolm Bricklin is talking about signing independent service shops and compensating them for any warranty works, because 50 or so dealerships he signed to date is not enough.

But don't expect any uniform quality service experience from a network of independent car service shops.

The Chinese car companies are also using the results of the J.D. Power survey as motivation - most of the "big" companies are re-vamping their assembly lines with substantial robotics, lower tolerance levels and a overall higher degree of quality.

Toyota quality comes from parts delivered by Toyota suppliers, not Toyota itself. Chinese cars can never compete quality wise as long as parts they use are crappy in quality.

Another secret to Toyota quality is its vertical integration; Toyota produces all major parts in house, to assure a tight quality control.

but I AM trying to say that these cars are BETTER than you give them credit for.

Just wait and see how many 8 year old Chinese cars are still around; you won't see too many.

I am telling you that the Chinese cars being manufactured RIGHT NOW are in the ballpark.

Your standard is too low.

but 3 years ago the chinese cars were barely in the parking lot!!

To me, none of Chinese cars even paid the parking fee(aka crash test and emission test) to even be in the parking lot.