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The J-10 looks nothing like the Lavi
Looks like a replica to everyone else.

and Israel never put the Lavi into production it was only a concept.
You do realize that Lavi was developed with US congress's money and US technology assistance as a form of military aid in the early 80s, until the US changed its FMS policies and agreed to the direct sales of F-15s and F-16s instead?

Israeli had no legal rights to sell Lavi design to the Chinese and this transaction caused an uproar in the US, subsequently resulting the ban of Israeli participation in joint weapons development.

China's air force already has hundreds of J-10's in service and is going to build thousands more, and they have already taken orders for the plane from middle eastern countries.
Lavi/J-10 is an 80's technology by the western standard and is pretty much obsolete. Nothing the US or its allies' AWAC + AMRAAM system can't take care of.

Anyhow, Lavi/J-10's airframe, radar, and avionics are of Israeli/US origin. Chinese only changed the engine to Russian ones as they couldn't source the US F-111 engine that Lavi was intended to have.
 

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China purchased it legally.
US funded 60% of Levi's development owned 60% of it, and they surely didn't approve Lavi sales to China.

Lavi transaction was illegal because it lacked the US approval. But doesn't matter, because Lavi is fairely obsolete anyway, especially in avionics department. Lavi pilots won't know what hit them when they actually go into a real battle.
 

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I don't care what deal had been done or what restrictions had been made between Israel and the US for the Lavi plan, CHINA purchased those technology legally
The sales is not legal since there is a non-transfer clause; Israel cannot transfer the tech to 3rd party with the US consent. Hence the sales was never legal, but the sum paid by China was large enough to risk a diplomatic dispute.

but from CHINA's point of view, CHINA did not violate any of the international laws or stuffs.
But from the US and EU's perspective Levi sales was illegal.

if there were an Lavi in service, it would be on par with the eurofighter or the french flying cheese rafael, at least more advanced than maybe 90% of the other fighter planes on earth
Levi was supposed to be an F-16 substitute when the US could not offer it to Israel. But when the US changed its weapons sales policy and offered F-15 and F-16 to Israel, Levi became unnecessary.

it would pawn the early version of F16 or other second generation jet fighters like F-5, MiG-23/27, Mirage F1, MiG-19/21, and are clearly on par with any of the existing 3rd generation fighers like F16C/D, F18D, or the Japanese version Lavi, F2, if not better.
Ask why Israeli were happy to drop Lavi for the real F-16.

And beside, what you mean by obsolete? aero design? weaponary? computing?
Lack of BVR(Beyond Visual Range) combat capability.

don't you know that you can just upgrade your weapon control system?
Chinese weapon control system is 20~30 years behind the US system.

Lavi/J-10 might be sufficient enough for dogfights against Taiwanese airforce planes without the AWAC cover, but they just don't stand a chance against the BVR combat system provided by US AWACs(or compatible AWACs operated by US allies such as Japan and Korea). Basically, Chinese warplanes would be blown out of sky without their pilot ever seeing the enermy
 

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Chinese J-10 constently beat the shit outta flankers Su-27 which had sufficient BVR combat capability.
I don't know where you get the idea that Su-27 has a sufficient BVR combat capability.

be prepared to see the next generation to be closer to US standard.
While China's enermies are currently operating US-spec systems.

Again, why should CHINA and the US be fighting each other in the first place?
1. Taiwan
2. Tibet
3. North Korea
4. China's future agression wars.

the world changes everyday, CHINA and the US were close allies during the great world war II
Allies with Koumintang, not commies.

it's not that CHINA was infected by communism for like 30 years made the country an enemy of the US
It is at the US Department of Defense.

not to mention that the current Chinese communist party is more capitalist than governments like France or Germany.
France and Germany have no problem purchasing US weapons they want. US goes extra-length to prevent Chinese from acquiring its weapons technology, however.

it's not just Chinese warplanes would be blown out of the sky like a turkey hunt, for the moment, any airforce on earth won't stand a chance to confront the mighty US airforce's raptor, fair enough, nothing to be particularly afraid of, it is the truth but at least unlike our Korean or Japanese neighbors who know nothing but purchasing downgraded US fighters, Chinese are doing some serious work trying to make their own indigenous jet fighters which in the long run will so benefit China's technology development
I don't think you understand how the modern air combat works. It is the AWAC's radar and control system that searches for enermy and guides missiles, not the fighter aircrafts themselves which are nothing more than missile carriers under AWAC cover. The AWAC would be tracking Chinese fighters and delivering missiles long before Chinese fighter's rader detects anything, so the Chinese fighter pilot wouldn't know what hit him before getting blown out of sky. This BVR combat principle is the same for all aircrafts including F-22, whose sole advantage is that its radar cross section is smaller so it can approach the enermy much closer before firing the missile.
 

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Tiggo said:
hater, seriously, quit posting in this thread please, you know jackhead about modern aviation warfares.
It is you who fail to understand.

Dog fighting is so 60s. The fate of your brave J-10 pilot is determined by the weapons control operator onboard the AWAC who sees the J-10 350 km away on his console screen and he touches the screen to terminate the J-10. The termination command is transmitted to the nearest F-15 or F-16, which then fires its AMRAAM guided by the AWAC's powerful radar. The brave J-10 never knows what hit him before meeting his brave and patriotic death....
 

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You lose all credibility when you include Tibet there. No country in the world recognizes Tibet as a country and no country will go to war over Tibet.
I read that a Chinese newspaper ran an article about 10 Chinese misconception about the world. No. 11 should have been Tibet, which is seen as a peaceful pacifist country illegally occupied by Chinese communits who routinely commit unspeakable atrocities of a systematic genocide.

And no, Genghis Khan is not a Chinese conqueror of the world.
 

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AWAC and F15? what is the range of the AIM-120? 75Km
Fired before the brave Chinese J-10 pilot sees anything on his rader screen.

I don't know what you are talking about 350 KM and all
See, you don't understand how the modern air interception works.

if all you can reach is 75KM it doesn't make much of a difference whether yer precious AWAC can see is 10,00KM or 100KM
You need time to analyze data, confirm it is the enermy, and prepare for the weapons launch. That 200 km detection gap between the AWAC and Chinese J-10 buys enough time to launch the missile before the J-10 pilot sees anything on his radar screen.

75 KM means you r gonna be flying in Chinese airspace and be prepared for China's SAMs and other AAMs fired from ground based radar, if not China's AWAC, guided fighter planes.
Well, it is the Chinese communist who is the aggressor, always invading other people's land like Vietnam, Tibet, Manchuria, and Mongolia.

if China is going to have a little conflict with Taiwan, you won't be facing a lot air resistance considering we will be determined to take out every airport on the island of taiwan before launching the operation; If US were to interfere, they don't have any F-15s or F-16s on their carriers.
Well, AWACs do take off from and land on aircraft carriers.
 

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Mandarin_orange said:
Hi all,

J-10 is not a Lavi copy period. Anyone who has worked in Aerospace field (such as moi) can easily tell you that.
So you missed out the whole "Pentagon mad at Israel for selling out Lavi paid for by US tax payers to China" feud.. Or you are in self-denial.

http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?id=17152
J-10 being a Lavi copy is a common knowlegde even in China.

Now anyone who tell me they are copies is on crack.
You are the one on crack. Earth is flat, Sun orbits around Earth, J-10 is not a copy of Lavi....

True, The early production block uses a AL-31FN engine which is basically a AL-31F wirh acessory box switched from top to bottom. But here is the point. The intention was always to use WS-10 (or Woshan-10/Turbofan -10) series for replacement and growth.
Well, many planes have multiple engine options. With the unavailability of US engines, Chinese always intended to substitute.

J-10 is 100% design/made in China.
And IAI Beijing office never existed.

and WS-10 is 100% design/made in China.
Like people are going to believe that.

btw, I am an aerospace engineer
Chinese, I presume.
 
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