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Hi all,
After reading this thread I feel like I have to post something.

J-10 is not a Lavi copy period. Anyone who has worked in Aerospace field (such as moi) can easily tell you that. True, both use close-couple canard. But that is it.

J-10 weighs more, has a higher top speed, Has a different planeform, uses a different mainwing design, designed around a different mission profile( close airsupport for lavi, Air superiority/Intercept for J-10)
Now anyone who tell me they are copies is on crack. Or simply doesn't know what they are yapping about.

About J-10's Engine.

True, The early production block uses a AL-31FN engine which is basically a AL-31F wirh acessory box switched from top to bottom. But here is the point. The intention was always to use WS-10 (or Woshan-10/Turbofan -10) series for replacement and growth.

China did bought AL31FN, but the maximum amount is no more than 300 units.

Now, here is the deal, AL-31 series replacement engine ratio is above 3:1. that means for every working engine you have 2 instock. Now that means there are no more than 100 J-10 production a/c that uses AL-31FN.

And guess howmany J-10 is inservice? the high guess is 4 regiments, low is 3 regiments. How many per regiment? 24. Plus Flytest article. and conversion squadron. You do that Math...

What is WS-10. IT is not a F110 clone, nor it is a AL-31FN clone. far from it. It uses certain aspects of the GE-F101 core such as those found in LM2500 gasturbines. especailly the High pressure Compressor section. But With a totally different Fan section and Hot section. For example, it's Fan section can acheive a pressure ratio of more than 8. that's way better than AL-31 and earlier versions of F110. It has a higher T/W ratio and higher over all pressure ratio. different diameter. etc etc. The WS-10 version that is going in J-10 and J-11 (upgraded domestic built version of Su-27 SMK) is in F-110-129 class.

The result:

J-10 is 100% design/made in China. (chief designer went on TV said it) and WS-10 is 100% design/made in China.

---
btw, I am an aerospace engineer and any idiot flamer who post LAVI = J-10 is welcome to post some facts to try to argue.
 

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Mandarin_orange said:
Hi all,
After reading this thread I feel like I have to post something.

J-10 is not a Lavi copy period. Anyone who has worked in Aerospace field (such as moi) can easily tell you that. True, both use close-couple canard. But that is it.

J-10 weighs more, has a higher top speed, Has a different planeform, uses a different mainwing design, designed around a different mission profile( close airsupport for lavi, Air superiority/Intercept for J-10)
Now anyone who tell me they are copies is on crack. Or simply doesn't know what they are yapping about.

About J-10's Engine.

True, The early production block uses a AL-31FN engine which is basically a AL-31F wirh acessory box switched from top to bottom. But here is the point. The intention was always to use WS-10 (or Woshan-10/Turbofan -10) series for replacement and growth.

China did bought AL31FN, but the maximum amount is no more than 300 units.

Now, here is the deal, AL-31 series replacement engine ratio is above 3:1. that means for every working engine you have 2 instock. Now that means there are no more than 100 J-10 production a/c that uses AL-31FN.

And guess howmany J-10 is inservice? the high guess is 4 regiments, low is 3 regiments. How many per regiment? 24. Plus Flytest article. and conversion squadron. You do that Math...

What is WS-10. IT is not a F110 clone, nor it is a AL-31FN clone. far from it. It uses certain aspects of the GE-F101 core such as those found in LM2500 gasturbines. especailly the High pressure Compressor section. But With a totally different Fan section and Hot section. For example, it's Fan section can acheive a pressure ratio of more than 8. that's way better than AL-31 and earlier versions of F110. It has a higher T/W ratio and higher over all pressure ratio. different diameter. etc etc. The WS-10 version that is going in J-10 and J-11 (upgraded domestic built version of Su-27 SMK) is in F-110-129 class.

The result:

J-10 is 100% design/made in China. (chief designer went on TV said it) and WS-10 is 100% design/made in China.

---
btw, I am an aerospace engineer and any idiot flamer who post LAVI = J-10 is welcome to post some facts to try to argue.

great first post
and welcome to chinacarforums
 

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Mandarin_orange said:
btw, I am an aerospace engineer and any idiot flamer who post LAVI = J-10 is welcome to post some facts to try to argue.

Nice to hear someone post with facts & know what they are talking about - for a change.

Mandarin_orange, great 1st post. Be ready to recieve such witty retorts as "you suck" and "You japan/China/Korea/British/US Hater", whatever.
 

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Admin said:
great first post
and welcome to chinacarforums
Thanks Admin.

Rock-N-Roll said:
Be ready to recieve such witty retorts as "you suck" and "You japan/China/Korea/British/US Hater", whatever.
Here is a simple chart that tells all. This has been floating around forever, and the actual academic article is from around 2000.

In jet engine development CHina is not #1, but apparently in the top-grade military low-by-pass afterburning turbofans field, is one of the top 4 in the world. and that's with the the other 1 spots jointly held by the euro threes.

Now if they can build an top engine that's within top four. they sure can build something that is much less complicated just as well, Give time.

Last time I checked, S.K. buys their engines, and IHI builds license carbon copies.
 

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Some body bought up AWACS issue.

China has probablly one of the most advanced AWACS in East Asia today.

KJ-2000.

Notice in the picture attached that the radome has 3 distinctive dielectric panels. That means the radar system has a 3 faced non-rotating Electronically steered Phased Arrays, providing 360 coverage. Find me a radar system in East Aisa today that has it.

no, you can't find it besides Ausies wedge-tail, The E-767 japan uses and E-3, E-2 all has horizontal mechanically steered rotating arrays.

What does this mean? you know those Aegis system on destroyers? vs those rotating radars? same idea.

Now tell me again China don't have AWACS?
 

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Mandarin_orange said:
Hi all,

J-10 is not a Lavi copy period. Anyone who has worked in Aerospace field (such as moi) can easily tell you that.
So you missed out the whole "Pentagon mad at Israel for selling out Lavi paid for by US tax payers to China" feud.. Or you are in self-denial.

http://www.isn.ethz.ch/news/sw/details.cfm?id=17152
J-10 being a Lavi copy is a common knowlegde even in China.

Now anyone who tell me they are copies is on crack.
You are the one on crack. Earth is flat, Sun orbits around Earth, J-10 is not a copy of Lavi....

True, The early production block uses a AL-31FN engine which is basically a AL-31F wirh acessory box switched from top to bottom. But here is the point. The intention was always to use WS-10 (or Woshan-10/Turbofan -10) series for replacement and growth.
Well, many planes have multiple engine options. With the unavailability of US engines, Chinese always intended to substitute.

J-10 is 100% design/made in China.
And IAI Beijing office never existed.

and WS-10 is 100% design/made in China.
Like people are going to believe that.

btw, I am an aerospace engineer
Chinese, I presume.
 

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Real_I_Hate_China said:
So you missed out the whole "Pentagon mad at Israel for selling out Lavi paid for by US tax payers to China" feud.. Or you are in self-denial.
yeah, And China traded a batch of J-7 for Egyptian Mig-23s back in the days. did you see any of Mig-23 in Chinese service?

Real_I_Hate_China said:
...
J-10 being a Lavi copy is a common knowlegde even in China.
"By Dominic Moran in Tel Aviv for ISN Security Watch (23/01/06)"
I can find a security analysit to say pretty much anything. these guys are idiots. we laugh all the time when we read these things in the office.

"common knowlegde even in China." by who? some internet idiot like you? statements like "by common knowlegde" are not facts. it's your (erroneous) factual assertions.
btw, .ch is not a chinese website, I didn't know you are dumb enough get a wrong source.

Also ONI says alot of things. back in the days they also said J-10 had stealth features.
IAI and Russians did help. but Lavi clone? come on. facts.

Real_I_Hate_China said:
You are the one on crack. Earth is flat, Sun orbits around Earth, J-10 is not a copy of Lavi....
The point is proof.


Real_I_Hate_China said:
Well, many planes have multiple engine options. With the unavailability of US engines, Chinese always intended to substitute.


And IAI Beijing office never existed.


Like people are going to believe that.
just like the GE and Boeing and EADS offices in China. They exist, does that prove anything? Boeing has an office in Moscow too, does that mean the new PAKFA is a X-32 clone?

The point is, IF J-10 is a lavi copy, J-10's airframe, wing, avionics, major sub systems, all has to be designed brand spanking new. Not to mention thousands of hour of windtunnel time need to sort the new aerodynamics out. hum... airframe/wing/major subsystem all new, is this copy? this goes against the very definition of Copy. Or you think design a fighter is just like play with molding clay?

And another note, China had a canarded Fighter design called J-9 way before IAI got involved, before IAI did Lavi. look it up.

Real_I_Hate_China said:
Chinese, I presume.
I am Chinese, but work in US as an Aerospace Engineer. So your point is?

look at your ID. Who is going to believe you are not biased?

come on, you are just a stupid pathetic loser who comes to this place to flame.

anyways, if you want to argue, argue with facts, volks! you can do better than this.

Tip to you: next time, get a different and less conspicuous name and may be you can have a bit credibility?
 

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Mandarin_orange said:
Hi all,
After reading this thread I feel like I have to post something.

J-10 is not a Lavi copy period. Anyone who has worked in Aerospace field (such as moi) can easily tell you that. True, both use close-couple canard. But that is it.

J-10 weighs more, has a higher top speed, Has a different planeform, uses a different mainwing design, designed around a different mission profile( close airsupport for lavi, Air superiority/Intercept for J-10)
Now anyone who tell me they are copies is on crack. Or simply doesn't know what they are yapping about.

About J-10's Engine.

True, The early production block uses a AL-31FN engine which is basically a AL-31F wirh acessory box switched from top to bottom. But here is the point. The intention was always to use WS-10 (or Woshan-10/Turbofan -10) series for replacement and growth.

China did bought AL31FN, but the maximum amount is no more than 300 units.

Now, here is the deal, AL-31 series replacement engine ratio is above 3:1. that means for every working engine you have 2 instock. Now that means there are no more than 100 J-10 production a/c that uses AL-31FN.

And guess howmany J-10 is inservice? the high guess is 4 regiments, low is 3 regiments. How many per regiment? 24. Plus Flytest article. and conversion squadron. You do that Math...

What is WS-10. IT is not a F110 clone, nor it is a AL-31FN clone. far from it. It uses certain aspects of the GE-F101 core such as those found in LM2500 gasturbines. especailly the High pressure Compressor section. But With a totally different Fan section and Hot section. For example, it's Fan section can acheive a pressure ratio of more than 8. that's way better than AL-31 and earlier versions of F110. It has a higher T/W ratio and higher over all pressure ratio. different diameter. etc etc. The WS-10 version that is going in J-10 and J-11 (upgraded domestic built version of Su-27 SMK) is in F-110-129 class.

The result:

J-10 is 100% design/made in China. (chief designer went on TV said it) and WS-10 is 100% design/made in China.

---
btw, I am an aerospace engineer and any idiot flamer who post LAVI = J-10 is welcome to post some facts to try to argue.

gotta admit, very good argument in support of J-10, the only person really valid enough to argue these facts is a person highly knowledgeable in aerospace too
 

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"and WS-10 is 100% design/made in China."
---
"Like people are going to believe that."

---

I guess you are talking about religion and faith now.

people are free to hold on to their belief as long as you want. But facts are still there. Not changed by beliefs.
 

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China must go on

A comment I won't be able to wait to post anymore,
China is welcome to his new present race ,the race of becoming the world's super power.
the Usa was bored enough of being the only super power,hitting his head from Iraq to Iran,S.Korea or Venezuela.Now that China is a great competitor it will help The United States to make up his mind and become the real superpower focusing to his real duty for the world.Loneliness is boring and so is being the only superpower.
:thumb:
 

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eddie said:
A comment I won't be able to wait to post anymore,
China is welcome to his new present race ,the race of becoming the world's super power.
the Usa was bored enough of being the only super power,hitting his head from Iraq to Iran,S.Korea or Venezuela.Now that China is a great competitor it will help The United States to make up his mind and become the real superpower focusing to his real duty for the world.Loneliness is boring and so is being the only superpower.
:thumb:
I don't think they want a race. It's more like "realizing their fullest potential".

The mentality is totally different.
 

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never mind

Mandarin_orange said:
I don't think they want a race. It's more like "realizing their fullest potential".

The mentality is totally different.
But so or so it's really good to know there's another.
:lol:
 
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