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This is what NBC has to say about Chinese automakers in the Detroit show this year

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/chinese-cars-in-detroit/475052294

And do you think what George said is true ? Do you agree with him about the " American cars 50 years ago ? "

I personally don't because I believe crash test did not even exist 50 years ago :D and I don't think American cars of 50 years ago could even get 2 stars in the C-Ncap.

But don't be overly optimistic though, seeing is believing, only when Chinese automakers can really show that they've done the homework then I will believe George.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Another attempt to demonize Chinese goods, while the USofA is the biggest consumer for Made in China products, if that is not hypocrisy I don't know what is ? If China was to stop importing all goods today, the US economy would sink to a new low and cease to exist ! Capitialism requires goods and services to be sold and bought for it to work or else its finish !

As the President of the US World Trade Orgainisation said; "For a bunch of Communists, they have become pretty good Capitalists"

All this negative talk about sub standard product is actually good for China. It makes the Chinese government crackdown on those companies ruining China's name. Thats the difference between a Capitalistic society like the US and China is that the government acts with an iron fist and things happen right away !

If crap cars from Eastern Europe like Lada, Skoda, Yugo and Dacia made it into Canada and the USA in the late 80's and early 90s, the Chinese cars are light years ahead of those. What I am seeing is a deliberate attempt to bad mouth Chinese cars as this is the last bastion of US industrial domination which is its auto sector who are in trouble now, its a do or die situation. Judging from what the Big 3 are turning out at the Auto Show this year, they haven't learnt a thing, they are all betting that gas guzzling pick-up trucks would save them ...go figure ! ...LoL
 

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Again , as I said, seeing is believing. People will only believe that Chinese made are good until China keeps producing good products consistently, and that depends on how good that iron fist government enforce the laws, and how people abide by the laws.

But as we can see from the video, they keep on replaying the BS6 crash test video, and the guy was trying to change the subject from car crash test to pet food and toys. But I think these bashing should be welcomed with open arms though, well better than hiding it and have shit quality forever.

I agree with your last point though, the Big Three are really in deep shit, Chrysler is sinking slowly into the quicksand. Who is next in the queue ?

Next please !
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
mememe said:
I agree with your last point though, the Big Three are really in deep shit, Chrysler is sinking slowly into the quicksand. Who is next in the queue ?

Next please !
The B3's labour force are all unionized, unions are a Communist manifestation to the surprise of many westerners and its the high wages of these union workers that are killing them. It was reported that the average Ford worker on the assembly line makes between $60-$80us/hour and they are on strike for higher wages still ! If the Japanese plants in the US and Canada are not carefull they will be in the same deep shit as the Big 3, so yes they will be next if the cost of their cars becomes too high.
 

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But I heard something from the BBC that some Chinese automaker I think it was Changfeng want to open manufacturing plants in America in the future.

Well I guess they just want to replay the good old trick of the Japanese after the racist fest of the 80s.

Lastly, I think China better keep both eyes wide open on the quality control issue and make sure that everything exit the country to another countries must have decent quality , not just for America though. Another quality related recall will bring everything down like a Lego pyramid fall. If China can play the quality card right, not only can she regain the trust of the consumers, China made label probably will become the leader in quality as well in short time. Well it also depends on the businessmen now, I hope they learn a hard lesson with 2007. They should be aware that the world of today is not so simple, China is now under a tight scrutiny, every move she makes will be viewed with a magnifying glass. So be careful.
 

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mememe said:
This is what NBC has to say about Chinese automakers in the Detroit show this year

http://video.aol.com/video-detail/chinese-cars-in-detroit/475052294

And do you think what George said is true ? Do you agree with him about the " American cars 50 years ago ? "

I personally don't because I believe crash test did not even exist 50 years ago :D and I don't think American cars of 50 years ago could even get 2 stars in the C-Ncap.

But don't be overly optimistic though, seeing is believing, only when Chinese automakers can really show that they've done the homework then I will believe George.

TOTALLY EXAGERRATED!! more like american cars 5-10 years ago

but in 5-10 years, american cars will be chinese cars 5-10 years ago

get it?
 

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Many American cars 5-10 years ago (even some as of 2007) are total, utterly complete pieces of junk. The Focus and PT Cruiser easily comes to mind. Just crap. (Test drive one and you'll see.)

I sincerely hope the Chinese cars, by the time they show up on US shores, are better than those cars... not a high bar by any measure, but still.
 

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school of hard knocks

All the BYD test drives, and other bloopers aside, the experience that the Chinese exhibitors are getting down in the Cobo Hall basement, is invaluable. They are learning the rules of the game the hard way....kinda like a baptism in fire.

As these giants India and China move into the global auto industry's mainstream, I think it can really be a force for making the world a little more peaceful place.

Have to give credit to Changfeng for choosing such elegant and intelligent looking young ladies to enhance the display.

By the way, where is that new Geely logo? Looks like they left it home.
 

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BringIt said:
Many American cars 5-10 years ago (even some as of 2007) are total, utterly complete pieces of junk. The Focus and PT Cruiser easily comes to mind. Just crap. (Test drive one and you'll see.)

I sincerely hope the Chinese cars, by the time they show up on US shores, are better than those cars... not a high bar by any measure, but still.

dont forget the aveo and so many others that i cant even remember
 

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Hi all. Just got back from Detroit.. great show this year. There were lots of Chinese cars downstairs, and on the way in.

I saw Chang Feng, Geely, BYD, and Tang Hua.

The yellow SUV from Chang Feng looked nice, the fit and finish seemed good, and they had a Diesel model on display... somthing the USA could certainly use more of.

The products from BYD were really good, the fit and finish were very good. I was very impressed and I am looking forward to seeing the cars brought here to the USA.

Geely, has some nice looking stuff too.. but is seemed to vary a bit. In some of the cars the fit and finish were OK.. some were NOT very good.. But I did like the styling of the cars. If the mechanicals are good, and reliable, I could live with the bad fit and finish... I drove a 92 Geo Metro.. it had bad fit and finish but was VERY reliable for me... it was basic transportation.. and there is a need for that in the USA I believe.

The crash test stuff you see on YouTube is WAY WAY overplayed, and the guy was absolutly WRONG about the car being compared to US cars 50yrs ago... I drove a 92 Geo Metro.. that would do much worse in a crash.. So mabye 10-12 years behind is more accurate, and I would not expect them to do as well, most people in China are not driving 80MPH down the Interstate Hwy as they do in Europe or USA... there is no point in building a car to survive a crash that will never happen. But if they want to sell here or in the EU, then they will have to improve it.

Overall I was very impressed with what I saw. It will be good to see more competition in the market. I think the big three American companies have the most to lose if they cannot get it together soon.

Ford, has nothing I would buy except the Mustang GT.

Chrysler, I like the products better, the 300C/Charger, and the Jeep Wrangler and Grand Cherokee, but they have financial issues, and reliability issues

GM suprisingly is the best of them now, 3 years ago I thought GM would be bancrupt... But they pulled there ass out of the fire, and are doing much better now. They still have some crappy models.. that are boring as hell, BUT they also have some... (I cant believe I am saying this) WORLD CLASS cars... the new Chevy Malibu is REALLY nice, as good as the new Honda Accord.
The Saturn Aura is very nice, and the affordable Chevy Cobalt is not exciting to drive but is well built and has shown to be very reliable. The new Silverado pickup truck is also nice. And they are close to bringing more small effiecient cars to market. The Chevy VOLT.. an electric car, and some others.


It will be a very interesting next 10-20 years... I think China will play a HUGE role in the auto industry.. they will likely do as the Korean before them.. start with afordable cars that are basic transportation, and work there way up. It will take them much less time to do it however, because they have great role models to follow.

I have some pics.. from the show, but I cant post them.. need 10 posts before it will let you.

Have a great day.

Ken
 

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Learning from the "Big 3s" mistakes

:confused: I have to agree with the majority of you in saying that packaging and quality will win over the American consumers in the long run (as proven by Honda and Toyota over the past 20 years). Nonetheless, part of the American public's perception is rooted in recent Chinese product quality scandals (lead paint in toys, etc...) but the other half of the battle is to create distinctive (not repackaged old Hondas or VWs) models to capture the imagination of buyers. Therefore, even the most reliable and safely operated models will not sell if they look like old Japanese models from the decade before. The unique Tang Haus pictured above begin to create this type of niche identity (though they must produce highway going vehicles as well- in spite of the "Big 3s" attempted blockades).
In other words, no-one will rush to buy even the best analogue TV (old technology: gas powered economy car)- when a, perhaps poorer quality HD (newer technology: electric "Green" car) is available for nearly the same price. Just as GM, Ford and Chrysler didn't/wouldn't offer economy cars in the mid seventies and the Japanese grabbed the niche- today China can grab and create it's own "Green" niche. Furthermore, during the "planned obsolescence" years (approx. 1974-1987), the "Big 3" pissed off millions of American buyers by creating mostly defective rust buckets (most were gas guzzlers to boot). Yet, during this same time period, the American public became increasingly aware of the higher quality of Japanese products; this was the double whammy that woke up the "Big 3" 20 years ago and forced them to build better cars. (1988-present)
Likewise, I completely agree that the "Big 3" US companies are in serious trouble for some of the reasons you stated (like banking on pickups and SUVs). However, here's the big picture overview (from someone who's lived it) of the US economy as it evolved over the past 35 years:
Step 1. When corporations realized that is was cheaper to pay politicians (via lobbyists) to approve of their outrageous price increases (public utilities, health care organizations, oil companies, insurance, cable TV, etc...) than to try to justify their greed to the general public, things started a huge downward spiral here for the typical working class Americans. Economists call this the end of American hegemony. (1973-1985)
Step 2. Realizing that they had dug into American bank accounts as far as they could, the corporations started exploring new venues to make money and created the unsustainable rage of "Consumerism". No longer were corporations happy with the traditional 15-25% profits per quarter- they now sought huge gains via publically manipulating perceptions about corporate growth (i.e. the new standard became 50-100% profit reporting per quarter) in order to sell more and more stocks to pad the salaries of the upper escelon management. During this phase "Downsizing" and "Outsourcing" became euphemisms for taking manufacturing jobs out of the US and sending them overseas (in many cases by actually using US tax dollars from these same unemployed families to relocate these jobs). At the same time, the American media advertising blitz pushed everyone to buy today and never think about tomorrow (leading to almost zero savings, huge personal debt rates and the highest divorce rate in the world). (1985-2000)
Step 3. With most middle class Americans living 1-2 paychecks away from bankruptcy, the corporate powers realized the only way to continue the unsustainable growth pattern was to loosen credit standards- while continuing to perpetuate the "American Dream Myth" (which equals 1 house, 2 1/2 cars and kids). Corporations pushed the advertising, credit institutions and politicians to keep going as if nothing was wrong- but this, my friends, is where the well ran dry! There simply are too few decent paying jobs left here to continue fueling pickup and SUV sales (especially with no new homes being built).
With less than 9% of US jobs now in the manufacuring sector and 70+% in the service industries (restaurants, convenience stores, etc... which equals the working poor) the US consumers (also becoming increasingly aware of the environment) simply won't continue buying gas guzzlers in large numbers-period. These are the same type of entry level/economy minded buyers that are emerging in China.
These "working poor" US consumers are now actively seeking "Green" alternatives, specifically well-designed electric cars! Face it, Honda, Toyota, VW and even GM already make high quality small gas cars. So why would China want to follow the "Big 3" into oblivion when they could be producing hydro, solar and electric cars than no one else is mass producing? Not only this but, for no other reason than the Chinese people themselves need these cars to solve their own nationl issues of a growingly mobil economic worker base to fuel the manufacturing boom (not more gas vehicles polluting and compounding the expansion problem).
Lastly, let's not forget that the American people and the US Govt./Corporations are not the same thing! People here are really pissed off about loosing their homes and jobs right now and they are demanding a government change (finally). What, if anything, to do with corporate greed/lobbyists will change? I don't know. However, I do know that record numbers of young (under 40), "Green minded" voters are coming out in support of Obama; this is the portal to future US sales (economic revitalization).
Personally, I am using this forum to also promote my anti-American corporation views, but I am doing it in hopes of getting Chinese Automakers interested in actually producing "Green" cars which would eventually be sold to my fellow working class Americans (decent people). I do this because I KNOW American automakers are refusing to build these cars that the American people want and need!
I am PRO Chinese manufacturing to benefit American, Chinese and other people around the world. The question is, will China learn from the "Big 3s" mistakes?
 

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Re: Detroit Auto Show 2008

Chinese automakers move to main floor of 2009 NAIAS thanks to no shows


November 25, 2008 - The Detroit Auto Show can’t be happy that several big name automakers have pulled out next January’s show, but, as the saying goes, there is always a silver lining. Due to the vacancies on the main floor, two Chinese automakers will be presenting in Cobo’s main hall for the first time.

China’s BYD Auto Co. and Brilliance Jinbei Automotive Co. will be setting up shop for the first time in Cobo’s main hall come January. Chinese automakers have been attending the Detroit show for years, but have only presented in Cobo’s lower – and often overlooked — Michigan Hall.

“They’ve been waiting, all the exhibitors in Michigan Hall, so it’s a wonderful opportunity for them,” Joe Serra, show co-chairman, told Automotive News.

BYD and Brilliance have been allotted 11,000 square feet on the main show floor.

So far Nissan, Infiniti, Land Rover, Ferrari, Rolls-Royce, Mitsubishi, Suzuki and Porsche have pulled out of the Detroit show, with several other automakers rumored to be mulling the trip to the Motor City.
source: leftlanenews.com
 

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Re: Detroit Auto Show 2008

This is the first time that two Chinese car manufacturers will be provided a main floor display space at the Cobo Center for the auto show in Detroit next year. BYD Auto Co.
------------------
williamgeorge
drivenwide.com
 

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Re: Detroit Auto Show 2008

why did these 2 specific Chinese car companies get to go to the main floor? how was it decided which companies would go there?
 

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Re: Detroit Auto Show 2008

martin_krpan said:
There was also one small manufacturer present at Detroit - Tang Hua, manufacturer of small electric vehicles. They exhibited three cars.

Detroit Fish

Piece of Cloud

Book of Songs
these "cars" don't fit well for the American market.
 

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Re: Detroit Auto Show 2008

alby13 said:
why did these 2 specific Chinese car companies get to go to the main floor? how was it decided which companies would go there?
Because of the financial crisis, some major manufacturers like Mitsubishi gave up their usual spots on the main floor. So newcomers like the Chinese didn't have to settle for out of the way locations.
 

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Re: Detroit Auto Show 2008

dragin said:
Because of the financial crisis, some major manufacturers like Mitsubishi gave up their usual spots on the main floor. So newcomers like the Chinese didn't have to settle for out of the way locations.
that's not my question.
 
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