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Being "closed" implies it's impossible, but it's not. Within 4 years you will find Chinese made cars in EU and US. You wanna make a bet on that?

It takes will and determination to succeed, and the Chinese have plenty. At least 1 or 2 companies will succeed.
 

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Real_I_Hate_China said:
One or two. SAIC or FAW.

Not the other guys.
Anyone, but SAIC or FAW, they really have nothing at all. Anyone could give me an exemple of Saic or Faw branded car?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
they really have nothing at all.
Nothing but money.

You need money to buy necessary technology, brand, do R&D, and earn certifications necessary to export.

Very few players in China actually have billions of dollars in cash to do this right.
 

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Ironically I see things more positive than the other way around in that report.

Most people in France who have purchased a car like Peugeot 407/607, Citroen C5, BMW 5, Volvo S60 etc may not buy any Chinese cheap cars in the future, but others will.

Most people in europe can't even tell the "nationality" of a non-EU car. They would buy cheap Hyundai, why won't they buy cheaper Chinese cars in the future? They are not like prefer something made in Korea, they just want to have the biggest bang of their bucks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
but others will.
The others will be???

If you are thinking Eastern European, please do note that Japanese and Korean makers are already setting up transplants there and Chinese cars + 10% import duty would have to compete against locally produced Toyotas and Hyundais.

They would buy cheap Hyundai, why won't they buy cheaper Chinese cars in the future?
Cheap price alone doesn't cut it; value is the keyword here. In other word, what are you getting for your hard earned money?

they just want to have the biggest bang of their bucks.
And you don't get that biggest bang of bucks by buying Chinese; you just get an unsafe, unreliable, and poorly engineered cheap car for cheap price.
 

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Real_I_Hate_China said:
The others will be???

If you are thinking Eastern European, please do note that Japanese and Korean makers are already setting up transplants there and Chinese cars + 10% import duty would have to compete against locally produced Toyotas and Hyundais.


Cheap price alone doesn't cut it; value is the keyword here. In other word, what are you getting for your hard earned money?


And you don't get that biggest bang of bucks by buying Chinese; you just get an unsafe, unreliable, and poorly engineered cheap car for cheap price.
Like only Japanese and Korean are allowed to build factories there?

Again, why would you think something Korean has more value than its Chinese counterpart?

If Chinese products are of such poor reputation, the EU wouldn't worry China taking over all their simpy work positions.

Face it, South Korea has no significant superiority over China, maybe it had for a couple of years, and China is catching up fast.

BTW, what I meant OTHERS were those who bought CHEAP hyundai.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Like only Japanese and Korean are allowed to build factories there?
1. Chinese don't have the money.
2. Chinese have to start paying European wages instead of Chinese wages.

Again, why would you think something Korean has more value than its Chinese counterpart?
Because a Hyundai can actually go head to head with Accord and Camry and win the "Best Family Sedan for Under $22,000" competition right now. Hyundai is selling on "value" alone.

Face it, South Korea has no significant superiority over China, maybe it had for a couple of years, and China is catching up fast.
There is a 14 year gap bewteen Korean cars and Chinese cars. The gap is close to 18 years with Japanese cars.
 

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Real_I_Hate_China said:
1. Chinese don't have the money.
2. Chinese have to start paying European wages instead of Chinese wages.


Because a Hyundai can actually go head to head with Accord and Camry and win the "Best Family Sedan for Under $22,000" competition right now. Hyundai is selling on "value" alone.


There is a 14 year gap bewteen Korean cars and Chinese cars. The gap is close to 18 years with Japanese cars.
lol

Such a nouveau riche attitude won't lead your country to anywhere.

:lol:

A number of Chinese brands have setup their factories in North America, France, Germany, Italy and have created numerous local jobs and are paying western european wage. Most of them are home electronics manufactuers such as Haier, Hisense, etc.

I would not comment on the year gap thing, but what do you guys have in your inventory to beat the 2002 Lexus, say LS430?

Any car to beat the 2002 Subaru Impreza WRX on the dirt road?

Any car to beat even a Mazda RX8? even a obsolete Skyline? Evo?

Four years gap huh, you think the japanese were asleeping and let you guys walk all the way pass? gimme a break.

Yeah, the 2006 SONATA does in a way have some air of a 2002 Subaru Legacy's face and an Accord's ass, if that's what you are refering to, 4 years.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
A number of Chinese brands have setup their factories in North America, France, Germany, Italy and have created numerous local jobs and are paying western european wage.
1. An auto factory costs an upward of $1 billion to set up.
2. When Chinese start paying euro and US wages instead of Chinese wages, then they can no longer price compete.

Four years gap huh, you think the japanese were asleeping and let you guys walk all the way pass? gimme a break.
So if it is difficult for Hyundai(currently global ranking no. 6) to close gap with Toyota(global ranking no. 2 going no.1 this year), then imagine what Chinese must do to close their 18 year gap.

Yeah, the 2006 SONATA does in a way have some air of a 2002 Subaru Legacy's face and an Accord's ass, if that's what you are refering to, 4 years.
Sonata is up to date with Accord or Camry. Hyundai has less than a year gap for Segment B(subcompact), C(Compact), and D(Mid-size) products. It is Segment E and the ultraluxury where they are falling behind Toyota, because this segment wasn't Hyundai's focus and they are just getting into Segment E and it will take them another decade or so for them to close the gap like they did with Segment B, C and D.

As for the Chinese, the 18 year gap is just too large to close unless they spend tens of billions in R&D to catch up, which most do not have.
 

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Real_I_Hate_China said:
1. An auto factory costs an upward of $1 billion to set up.
2. When Chinese start paying euro and US wages instead of Chinese wages, then they can no longer price compete.


So if it is difficult for Hyundai(currently global ranking no. 6) to close gap with Toyota(global ranking no. 2 going no.1 this year), then imagine what Chinese must do to close their 18 year gap.


Sonata is up to date with Accord or Camry. Hyundai has less than a year gap for Segment B(subcompact), C(Compact), and D(Mid-size) products. It is Segment E and the ultraluxury where they are falling behind Toyota, because this segment wasn't Hyundai's focus and they are just getting into Segment E and it will take them another decade or so for them to close the gap like they did with Segment B, C and D.

As for the Chinese, the 18 year gap is just too large to close unless they spend tens of billions in R&D to catch up, which most do not have.

SONATA?up to date with Camry and Accord? one year? how shameless you can be? :nono:

Again, if you continue to talk with that buck attitude, you just make youself look worse.

Chery automobile was setup in 1997 and after nine years, it sold 26,435 cars in China last month ranking 3rd place on the sale's list and the number is still rocketing. Chinese especially young Chinese are willing to buy home brand autos for various reasons, but unlike your South Korean Hyundai which benefited from ultramate policy protection of your government, Chinese automakers were competing with world's largest and most advanced auto makers from the very beginning. I have faith in Chinese auto brands because if they can survive in China, they can also do it oversea.

Money, huh, you can talk as if Chinese did't have any money to burn, I don't think finacially what a S.Korean has to brag about.
 

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It's not you Korean don't want to build some luxry cars like the Lexus, Acura or Infiniti, you simply cannot compete with Japanesein in that field except maybe in Korea where import duty is like as crazy as that in China for luxry cars. People in China who will buy a luxry car won't even consider S.Korean brand. Truth hurts.

Hyundai has its luxry cars like Equus and Dynasty which you don't see in other countries. You can claim whatever you want, a Korean car is a Korean car and it means CHEAP.

Lexus was first introduced into North America in 1989, it has become the most popular brand for luxry cars in the states. Hyundai is famous for vending cars around $15,000 with your CHEAP SONATA and all......what a one year's gap if you insist.

A Sonata might be as reliable as a Camry or Accord, but it does not necessarily mean the Korean auto industry is like neck to neck with the Japanese. If that's your theory, a lot China's industries are on the same level with international giants.

A Korean car is nothing special but CHEAP.
 

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
you simply cannot compete with Japanesein in that field except maybe in Korea where import duty is like as crazy as that in China for luxry cars.
I already explained Korean focus on B,C, and D-segment markets until now; that's where 90% of volume is.

People in China who will buy a luxry car won't even consider S.Korean brand. Truth hurts.
Why would they want to buy from a brand that had no intention of selling?

a Korean car is a Korean car and it means CHEAP.
A Sonata's average transaction price is higher than Camry in the US.

Lexus was first introduced into North America in 1989, it has become the most popular brand for luxry cars in the states.
So Hyundai tries its luck in 2007, with a trio of luxury vehicles designed for its still-born luxury brand now rebadged as Hyundais. At least Hyundai seemed to have convinced US buyers to pay $28,000 for a Hyundai right now, let's see if Hyundai can convince $35,000~40,000 for a Hyundai.

So when will we see true Chinese luxury cars? In 2027?

what a one year's gap if you insist.
One year or less for B, C, and D-segment.

A Sonata might be as reliable as a Camry or Accord, but it does not necessarily mean the Korean auto industry is like neck to neck with the Japanese.
Of course not, at least they are not 18 years behind Japanese or they would have been driven out of developed markets a long time ago.

If that's your theory, a lot China's industries are on the same level with international giants.
Up to date Chinese auto industry that cannot pass crash and emissions test.
 

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Real_I_Hate_China said:
I already explained Korean focus on B,C, and D-segment markets until now; that's where 90% of volume is.
Truth is, you never gonna sell. Very few people want to spend 30~40k USD on a Korean car.


Real_I_Hate_China said:
Why would they want to buy from a brand that had no intention of selling?
No intention of selling? who do you thing you are, the general manager of Hyundai China? I've seen Equus advertisement in Shanghai, if they didn't intend to sell them in China, why would they advertise?


Real_I_Hate_China said:
A Sonata's average transaction price is higher than Camry in the US.
I only know that the price of a Sonata equals to a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla, if I can afford a Camry why would I spend on a Hyundai?

I see a lot family owned Elantra in China, but not a lot families are buying SONATA, SONATA just won't sell here even though some of its models are cheaper than a China made Civic which will soon be released. On the contrary, Honda Accord, a lot more expensive than Sonata and produced in Guangzhou, are one of the bestsellers of all time in CHINA.

Sonata just won't sell.



So Hyundai tries its luck in 2007, with a trio of luxury vehicles designed for its still-born luxury brand now rebadged as Hyundais. At least Hyundai seemed to have convinced US buyers to pay $28,000 for a Hyundai right now, let's see if Hyundai can convince $35,000~40,000 for a Hyundai.


So when will we see true Chinese luxury cars? In 2027?
No cheap word needed, we'll see in 2027.


Up to date Chinese auto industry that cannot pass crash and emissions test.
Sure we don't want to replace those last positions held by Korean brands for years.
 

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Admin said:
Please elaborate this post?

What does this mean?
Now that I know our admin is not native Chinese. lol.

Chinese romanized pinyin acronym....mmm, could take a while to explain to non-Chinese speaking people. :p anyway it's not a compliment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Very few people want to spend 30~40k USD on a Korean car.
Well, at least they convinced people to spend upto $27K.

No intention of selling? who do you thing you are, the general manager of Hyundai China? I've seen Equus advertisement in Shanghai, if they didn't intend to sell them in China, why would they advertise?
Those are from private importers.

Hyundai directly sells only Accent, Elantra, Tuscan, Sonata, and Azera. All other Hyundais are sold by private importers.

I only know that the price of a Sonata equals to a Honda Civic or Toyota Corolla,
Unlikely since Elantra, last year's No. 1 best seller in China, was selling at a far higher price than they do in the US or in Korea.

Sure we don't want to replace those last positions held by Korean brands for years.
You have to start from low.
 
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