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Every 1.46 families in Beijing own a car
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As of now........
It is my understanding that the current national law on banning old cars is 15 years - it's probably a good idea that Beijing (and possibly Shanghai and Guangzhou) consider enacting a more stringent ban on old cars, due to the fact that these 3 cities have have significantly higher numbers of cars on the street. I also assume that the same laws apply regarding proper operating condition of the vehicle for second hand cars as it does for new cars.......but to be honest with you I don't know. Are there "smog laws" in China? Are there certification centers in China that can test cars to make sure their catalytic converters are working and they're not pumping out too much smog?? Are second hand vehicles that are purchased required to pass ANY kind of testing? MOST second hand vehicles are purchased with cash...........so I assume right now it's kind of a "buyer beware" kind of thing - NOT to mention the words "as is" condition (a SCARY thought considering the POOR condition of some second hand cars I've seen here).
These kinds of questions need to be asked AND answered as China's second hand car market grows...............or these second hand cars just might become FIRST HAND contributors to China's smog problems.
It is my understanding that the current national law on banning old cars is 15 years - it's probably a good idea that Beijing (and possibly Shanghai and Guangzhou) consider enacting a more stringent ban on old cars, due to the fact that these 3 cities have have significantly higher numbers of cars on the street. I also assume that the same laws apply regarding proper operating condition of the vehicle for second hand cars as it does for new cars.......but to be honest with you I don't know. Are there "smog laws" in China? Are there certification centers in China that can test cars to make sure their catalytic converters are working and they're not pumping out too much smog?? Are second hand vehicles that are purchased required to pass ANY kind of testing? MOST second hand vehicles are purchased with cash...........so I assume right now it's kind of a "buyer beware" kind of thing - NOT to mention the words "as is" condition (a SCARY thought considering the POOR condition of some second hand cars I've seen here).
These kinds of questions need to be asked AND answered as China's second hand car market grows...............or these second hand cars just might become FIRST HAND contributors to China's smog problems.
Regarding second hand (used vehicles) as the market expands and increases in sophistication manufacturers will "jump in" with CPO (Certified Pre Owned) programs.
Do cars in China have a "pollution system" catalytic converters etc?
In North America the pollution control systems carry a longer warranty, and if the vehicle fails to pass a pollution inspection the manufacturer is obligated to repair the pollution system if its still under warranty.
Imagine when each family has 1 car, that would be a 46% increase in sales.
Do cars in China have a "pollution system" catalytic converters etc?
In North America the pollution control systems carry a longer warranty, and if the vehicle fails to pass a pollution inspection the manufacturer is obligated to repair the pollution system if its still under warranty.
Imagine when each family has 1 car, that would be a 46% increase in sales.
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Car exhaust fumes blamed for air pollution in Beijing
(Xinhua)
Updated: 2007-05-31 17:22
Most Beijing residents point to autos as the main factor in the city's air pollution, according to a survey released Thursday.
The survey by the Beijing municipal environment protection publicity center and the municipal social psychology institute was carried out with 1,520 respondents.
More than 90 percent of the surveyed attribute air pollution to auto exhaust fumes, and 87 percent also complained about traffic noise, says the report, which indicates that air pollution and noise are the two main gripes of Beijing residents.
Over 1,000 new vehicles are registered in Beijing every day, and the city expects to have 3.3 to 3.5 million vehicles circulating by August next year, when the Olympic Games begin
(Xinhua)
Updated: 2007-05-31 17:22
Most Beijing residents point to autos as the main factor in the city's air pollution, according to a survey released Thursday.
The survey by the Beijing municipal environment protection publicity center and the municipal social psychology institute was carried out with 1,520 respondents.
More than 90 percent of the surveyed attribute air pollution to auto exhaust fumes, and 87 percent also complained about traffic noise, says the report, which indicates that air pollution and noise are the two main gripes of Beijing residents.
Over 1,000 new vehicles are registered in Beijing every day, and the city expects to have 3.3 to 3.5 million vehicles circulating by August next year, when the Olympic Games begin
That's mostly a perception. Construction sites are bigger pollution sources than cars.
As for cars, expanding the city geographically is as good and effective as restricting car ownership. Even in American cities, it would be a nightmare if everyone rushes into downtown.
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Actually, the biggest source of air pollution here in China, is coal fired power plants that utilized poor quality, high sulfur content coal. You are right, the survey is based on BJ resident's perceptions, but for you to suggest that "construction sites" contribute more to air pollution than vehicle emissions is a faulty analysis. I don't know if you have ever actually been to BJ, but the problem is not one of cars rushing into "downtown" or the CBD. The city is already huge geographically & densely populated and the central government has annexed portions of adjacent provinces into the city several times. At all times of the day, several miles, far away from the CBD, you experience traffic jams. You have an ever expanding city-state, with over 12 million people were the mass transit system represents 26% of commuters transportation needs. Comparing this to NYC, where the number is 75%, illustrates the magnitude of the dilemma. The key here, is not as you suggest, an ever expanding "urban sprawl", but an accelerated, focused expansion of BJ's subway & bus system, which by the way, is major a priority of the central government.
iolk888, I learned that construction sites were worse than cars in a newspaper report. It's been a few years so I'm sure if it's still true. Obviously coal fired power plants are even worse but I don't remember if there are many heavy industry plants in the city. The Capital Steel was moving out to other provinces, which was good for everyone.
Yes, I agree with you that mass transportation system is the way to address traffic issues.
When I said "downtown", I really meant the area inside the 2rd Ring Road, or, we can even say the area inside the 3rd Ring Road. The city needs to expand further and be better designed, where people live, where they go to work and shop, etc. Subway is definitely better than private cars, but shorter commute is the most desired. Again, by that, I don't mean this is the only way or the most critical method. It's just one thing we should not overlook.
Yes, I agree with you that mass transportation system is the way to address traffic issues.
When I said "downtown", I really meant the area inside the 2rd Ring Road, or, we can even say the area inside the 3rd Ring Road. The city needs to expand further and be better designed, where people live, where they go to work and shop, etc. Subway is definitely better than private cars, but shorter commute is the most desired. Again, by that, I don't mean this is the only way or the most critical method. It's just one thing we should not overlook.
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Yes, but..........
That would be the best way...............a shorter commute! However. with apartment prices getting REALLY outrageous in Beijing (it's something like 10,000-15,000rmb PER SQUARE METER in the center of city if you want to buy a apartment, in Guangzhou some of the nicest apartments sell for over 20,000rmb per square meter now), many people simply can't afford to buy a apartment that expensive - so they move to the outer ring roads. Hmmmmmmmmm.......sounds like the USA - downtown gets too expensive, the suburbs grow, the commute from the suburbs gets more crowded and takes longer, and then people try to figure out a way to move back to downtown again!! Many american cities ARE trying this now...........creating "affordable" housing in the downtown areas. Los Angeles is a prime example of this - they are really trying to create a place to live, a place to have fun at night - vs. what it USED to be - a place to leave from once business hours were over.
China should think about this - "affordable" housing in the center of cities. OK, it might not be "family friendly" - but for the growing population of young, professional single people, it's PERFECT. Here's another thought........some companies are now MOVING the company closer to where the workers live. Suburb cities can have lower business tax rates and can also provide incentives to lure companies....and it's proving to be a success. I know Beijing is also trying this with it's "technology parks"...........they're basically building communities around the technology parks and it will be interesting to see if this proves popular with the workers. Many cities in China are now developing this same concept (Nanning's tech park is going to be huge when it's all done).
You know, one of the problems is simply the lack of availibility of places like Wal Mart, Carrefour, etc. No, I'm NOT advocating that Wal Mart expand in China the way it has in the USA (god that would be horrible)........but here is a example. In Nanning, we have only ONE Wal Mart right now (a second one is due to open in August along with our first Carrefour) and it's in the middle of the downtown shopping area. As a result, traffic coming and going to the downtown area is just getting worse and worse. What used to be a 10-15 minute trip for me from my apartment (by taxi) is now more like 30 minutes - longer if I am stupid and go there during peak commute times. Once that second Wal Mart is open, I can go there instead - it's a bit closer for me, the roads getting there are modern and designed to handle larger volumes of traffic. The new Wal Mart is also the anchor of a new, HUGE international shopping complex............so NOW once that is all open shoppers won't have to go into the center of the city anymore if they don't want to. No, I DON'T want to see a Wal Mart every 2 kilometers (like it seemingly is in the USA)........but for a city the size of Nanning one simply isn't enough.
I'm sure that Nanning is hoping that this will ease the traffic insanity in the downtown areas........but the truth is only time will tell.
outofin said:
That would be the best way...............a shorter commute! However. with apartment prices getting REALLY outrageous in Beijing (it's something like 10,000-15,000rmb PER SQUARE METER in the center of city if you want to buy a apartment, in Guangzhou some of the nicest apartments sell for over 20,000rmb per square meter now), many people simply can't afford to buy a apartment that expensive - so they move to the outer ring roads. Hmmmmmmmmm.......sounds like the USA - downtown gets too expensive, the suburbs grow, the commute from the suburbs gets more crowded and takes longer, and then people try to figure out a way to move back to downtown again!! Many american cities ARE trying this now...........creating "affordable" housing in the downtown areas. Los Angeles is a prime example of this - they are really trying to create a place to live, a place to have fun at night - vs. what it USED to be - a place to leave from once business hours were over.
China should think about this - "affordable" housing in the center of cities. OK, it might not be "family friendly" - but for the growing population of young, professional single people, it's PERFECT. Here's another thought........some companies are now MOVING the company closer to where the workers live. Suburb cities can have lower business tax rates and can also provide incentives to lure companies....and it's proving to be a success. I know Beijing is also trying this with it's "technology parks"...........they're basically building communities around the technology parks and it will be interesting to see if this proves popular with the workers. Many cities in China are now developing this same concept (Nanning's tech park is going to be huge when it's all done).
You know, one of the problems is simply the lack of availibility of places like Wal Mart, Carrefour, etc. No, I'm NOT advocating that Wal Mart expand in China the way it has in the USA (god that would be horrible)........but here is a example. In Nanning, we have only ONE Wal Mart right now (a second one is due to open in August along with our first Carrefour) and it's in the middle of the downtown shopping area. As a result, traffic coming and going to the downtown area is just getting worse and worse. What used to be a 10-15 minute trip for me from my apartment (by taxi) is now more like 30 minutes - longer if I am stupid and go there during peak commute times. Once that second Wal Mart is open, I can go there instead - it's a bit closer for me, the roads getting there are modern and designed to handle larger volumes of traffic. The new Wal Mart is also the anchor of a new, HUGE international shopping complex............so NOW once that is all open shoppers won't have to go into the center of the city anymore if they don't want to. No, I DON'T want to see a Wal Mart every 2 kilometers (like it seemingly is in the USA)........but for a city the size of Nanning one simply isn't enough.
I'm sure that Nanning is hoping that this will ease the traffic insanity in the downtown areas........but the truth is only time will tell.
China has the unique opportunity to be innovative on how vehicles are used. Hopefully the people responsible will look at what other countries have been or are planning to do to resolve the congestion problems that they have.
Cars afford incredible personal transportation freedom, until the point of being free and going nowhere stuck in traffic is reached. For some reason the infrastucture never keeps up.
Cars afford incredible personal transportation freedom, until the point of being free and going nowhere stuck in traffic is reached. For some reason the infrastucture never keeps up.
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In addition.....
The "auto boom" in China is still just in the beginning stages.....this is a PERFECT time to get on top of the alternative fuel idea and make it a MAJOR focus for the forseeable future. This idea could ALSO put China in the position of being one of the world's MAJOR leaders and innovators - ESPECIALLY if they can figure out a way to reduce (or eliminate) our need for the use of fossil fuels.
Very true............and China ALSO has the unique opportunity to be innovative on WHAT kinds of vehicles are used. If China is smart, they will make a DEDICATED investment into alternative fuels (ethanol, bio-fuels and especially hybird/electric/fuel cell technology). The government has hundreds of billions in foreign currency reserves..........how about spending (more like investing in the future) some to become the world's leader in alternative fuel technology?? None of the technology I'm talking about is science fiction either......it's just a matter of making the technology COST EFFECTIVE. In my opinion, America has really dropped the ball on being the leader in developing this technology......because people are too greedy to give up some of their shareholder profits with the oil companies. It's only NOW (because of public awareness about global warming) that the american car companies are finally making a "real" (if you want to call it that) effort to develop alternative fuel vehicles - YEARS later than they should have (and could have) been doing it. Even today, there is NO simple, effective incentive for american to buy smaller cars (or alternative fuel cars) yet..........no tax breaks, nothing. At least China has already done that with it's flexible sales tax rates based on engine size!! It's pretty simple here..........buy a small car (engine size of 1.5 liters or smaller) and pay less in sales tax (and pay a HIGHER sales tax if the engine is 2.0 liters or bigger). It's just ONE solution of many that are needed........but it IS a step in the right direction.AGR said:
The "auto boom" in China is still just in the beginning stages.....this is a PERFECT time to get on top of the alternative fuel idea and make it a MAJOR focus for the forseeable future. This idea could ALSO put China in the position of being one of the world's MAJOR leaders and innovators - ESPECIALLY if they can figure out a way to reduce (or eliminate) our need for the use of fossil fuels.
jmsteiny,
Prescient comments...one or two or even more Chinese automotive manufacturers should start looking at electric cars as a competitive advantage in the Chinese and international market.
In North America there is a very established ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) infrasturcture which is not easy to displace and replace. Series Hybrid with NiMh batteries is a good starting point, and from a series hybrid to a full electric vehicles.
Alternate fuels work well in a country like Brazil where alcohol is made from sugar cane, in North America alcohol from corn is not the best solution, since corn is a food staple for humans and animals.
Canada a few months ago established a "feebate" for vehicles based on fuel economy ratings - the most economical have a $ 2,000 CDN credit the least economical have up to a $ 4,000 CDN charge. A Toyota Yaris has a 2,000 credit, a Honda Fit 1,000 and a Roll-Royce Phantom a 4,000 charge as an example.
Prescient comments...one or two or even more Chinese automotive manufacturers should start looking at electric cars as a competitive advantage in the Chinese and international market.
In North America there is a very established ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) infrasturcture which is not easy to displace and replace. Series Hybrid with NiMh batteries is a good starting point, and from a series hybrid to a full electric vehicles.
Alternate fuels work well in a country like Brazil where alcohol is made from sugar cane, in North America alcohol from corn is not the best solution, since corn is a food staple for humans and animals.
Canada a few months ago established a "feebate" for vehicles based on fuel economy ratings - the most economical have a $ 2,000 CDN credit the least economical have up to a $ 4,000 CDN charge. A Toyota Yaris has a 2,000 credit, a Honda Fit 1,000 and a Roll-Royce Phantom a 4,000 charge as an example.
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