First German Review of Zhonghua : Save your money and buy something else.

10958 Views 18 Replies 12 Participants Last post by superidler, Dec 7, 2006

Real_I_Hate_China

Discussion Starter · Dec 3, 2006

http://translate.google.com/transla...00.html/&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=1&ct=result
Better get used to "Save your money and buy something smaller for same money" advice.

1 - 19 of 19 Posts

mgrovernut

· #2 · Dec 3, 2006

23 thousand Euro's for a car with less than 3 NCAP stars, lots of dodgy interior mouldings and a stupid sounding name. What a rip off! I don't think that will scare many Western or Japanese car makers. Can't see many people at work saying I've just bought a Brilliant new Brilliance...

You could get a much better Mondeo for that kind of money. What will scare car makers in Europe is when Nanjing start shipping MG's and Roewe's which have been styled and engineered in Europe but built in China. Chinese car makers should watch and learn from them. Kia employed the same strategy of recruiting Western European car engineers and designers and are doing really well now. Brilliance have simply designed a car which is about as good as a Proton but then priced it like a Golf. I'd have a Golf every single time over that rubbish...

Real_I_Hate_China

Discussion Starter · #3 · Dec 3, 2006

What will scare car makers in Europe is when Nanjing start shipping MG's and Roewe's which have been styled and engineered in Europe but built in China.

What makes you think Nanjing and SAIC could price them less than MG Rover could? Beside the car itself is getting old.

Chinese car makers should watch and learn from them. Kia employed the same strategy of recruiting Western European car engineers and designers and are doing really well now.

Kia's bascially a brand of Hyundai, nothing more. Hyundai's recruitment is for the globalization of its models to better reflect regional consumer tastes, 99% of R&D is still done at its main R&D center staffed by 10,000 engineers. It takes money and resources to develop a world-class car, something that is not available to Chinese venders.

Brilliance have simply designed a car which is about as good as a Proton but then priced it like a Golf. I'd have a Golf every single time over that rubbish...

This isn't just Brilliance's problem, China's an expensive place to build cars according to Honda and Hyundai, and so called "Chinese price" doesn't exist in automobiles.

You are going to get lots of Chinese cars priced within 90% of Japanese and Korean cars getting burned in the developed markets.

KING_OF_HILL

· #4 · Dec 3, 2006 (Edited)

Real_I_Hate_China said:
FROM Real_I_Hate_China:
You can call me wrong when Chinese pass EuroNCAP.

Now you know Brilliance did, come on, let me hear you say

"I WAS WRONG" !!!

You can argue about that 2 start all you want, but a pass is a pass and now they can sell it in Europe, don't try to make a case out of that and be a sour loser.

:lol:

Now you wanna just hide your tail between your legs and jump from thread to thread huh?

mgrovernut

· #5 · Dec 3, 2006

Real_I_Hate_China said:
What makes you think Nanjing and SAIC could price them less than MG Rover could? Beside the car itself is getting old.

Nanjing have already said somewhere that they may price the car from about 10000 pounds. That is seriously cheap and although the 75 is getting older it was a brilliant car in the first place and I'd still buy one over a next generation Mondeo (indeed a few BMW drivers I know have even done this). The reason they can afford to sell it for this price is because they only paid 50 million pounds for the equipment and a set of Western car brands, which is probably less than is cost Brilliance to develop a wheel nut for it's Zonghua....In addition they are using western robots to build the cars in what is already a low labour rate country. At 10k a pop then MG ought to be aiming to take a lot of market share....

jmsteiny

· #6 · Dec 4, 2006

As usual.............

Well China hater, you're just doing it again..........MISQUOTING (actually not even that - just making up your own garbage) the review and offering lies in it's place. NEVER in the review did it say "save your money and buy something smaller......." - IN FACT the review was mildly positive. Yes, the review did bring up small fit and finish issues and also talked about the NCAP rating (something that Brilliance is well aware of and working hard to fix).......and yes Brilliance needs to show improvements as it unveils other models into the European market. Overall though, the review was of a neutral nature with positive aspects to it - that, my friends is the TRUTH. Read and judge for yourself............but I think you'll agree with me that it is NOT a negative review.

China hater, I hope someday we get the chance to meet.........don't worry, I'm offering no threat or violence of any kind. I simply would like to sit down and have a cup of coffee and ask you WHY you feel the way you do - you've never even BEEN to China and yet you have so much NEGATIVITY when it comes to Chinese cars (and to a point the culture and the people as well). I relocated here with an open mind........and I've been pleasantly surprised with all the wonderful things I've discovered. Yes, there ARE a lot of improvements that still need to be made (I'm talking about everything - INCLUDING the quality of chinese cars) and there ARE times that I am not happy here and get quite frustrated. HOWEVER, the positives far outweigh the negatives, and China IS a country working hard to move forward and become a better place for it's people. IF you ever do decide to come to China, I cordially welcome you to Nanning (my city)........one of the most beautiful and friendly cities in all of China (it's known as the "green" city because of the lush green trees and plants that are green all year). I know you'll never accept this invitation, but I hope you do..............you might be VERY surprised at what you discover.:nod:

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chinacartimes

· #7 · Dec 4, 2006

I might go for a test drive in a Brilliance Auto at the weekend if I can organise it in time.

See what I can do.

Real_I_Hate_China

Discussion Starter · #8 · Dec 4, 2006

NEVER in the review did it say "save your money and buy something smaller......."

Enter: Drivers with pioneer spirit, who would like to tell their grandchildren later, it would have driven the first Chinese car at that time into Germany.

Step out: Drivers with requirement, who rather put the same money into a smaller car, which is for it however really modern and safe.

Sorry to own you.

KING_OF_HILL

· #9 · Dec 4, 2006

Real_I_Hate_China said:
FROM Real_I_Hate_China:
You can call me wrong when Chinese pass EuroNCAP.

Now you know Brilliance did, come on, let me hear you say

"I WAS WRONG" !!!

You can argue about that 2 start all you want, but a pass is a pass and now they can sell it in Europe, don't try to make a case out of that and be a sour loser.

:lol:

Now you wanna just hide your tail between your legs and jump from thread to thread huh?

phaeton

· #10 · Dec 5, 2006

No big writing please

oo4load

· #11 · Dec 5, 2006

At home I have (or had) a dutch "autoweek" magazine that tested the Zhonghua M1 1 year ago (still supplied by Gibraltar motors), and put it up against the new Hyundai Sonata.
Their review was even more mild than this slightly critical one. It faired pretty well against the Sonata, in some ways surpassing it while costing a lot less.
The funny thing was, in the conclusion thay said they would STILL prefer to pay 5000 euro more for the Sonata, but why??? That was never expained. The article was more positive than the conclusion.

Also in this article, the problem is not that it's a bad car, the problem is it is promoted as the perfect combination of porsche/mitsubishi/BMW/italian design at €20000.
They should take a more modest position.

micodelija

· #12 · Dec 5, 2006

i think that german press are very well payed off from the competition because they are scared of chinese vehicles

also one stupid thing,brilliance is holding from BMW...so they write against BMW,i see in company that all is doing fine,and production of the vehicles is on the big level,where they make the BMW 3 and 5 serises they also make the grandeur and splendor...all is under control of BMW experts from Europe

i drive a grandeur model with 2.4 engine...and the car is going very well,air condition,automatic and all other eqip...i think that that car will have a succes

hazik

· #13 · Dec 6, 2006

can you take picture and post here of grandeur?

oo4load

· #14 · Dec 6, 2006

Autobild has ~17 pictures.

http://www.autobild.de/projektor/galerie.php?pos=0&artikel_id=12780

Also be sure to read the sometimes very stupid negative comments. "The car has a top speed of 195km/h, but the tacho says 220 when you go 195!!!"
Well, I have NEVER seen a car with an accurate top speed. :nono:

fightingtorque

· #15 · Dec 6, 2006

It's a great start. Of course there is work to do.

On the subject of the SAIC/ NAC cars, don't get me wrong because I personally invested a lot of time and energy into getting the parts made for the K series engines in China but.........

..... upon my return to England I was greeted with an interim company car. Apparently the previous user experienced early termination of his employment. I now have the dubious pleasure of a Rover 75 turbodiesel automatic. I appreciate that different cars are aimed at different target customers, and me with a 285bhp (soon to be upgraded) Esprit S4 sitting next to it on the drive might not be normal, but I can't stand the Rover.

superidler

· #16 · Dec 6, 2006

Is there any info(picture or video) available for the crash test?

At the latest crash result, I can't see about this car. May be it's too early to update?

http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/ratings.php?id1=6

I remember the pricture and video clips were available when Landwind had the crash test. Is this coz the test was executed by brilliance? And do they have the crash test center that meets the standard of euroncap?

I just wonder about the credibility of test result. In landwind case, the first time failed the test and 2nd one passed. But somehow I didn't see any different result between 1st and 2nd test though 2nd test was done with a slower speed. This time only words?

ADAC
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J9OlxjkInWg

TUV
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bDsgz2Jmz8

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erik (laofan) cmvdc

· #17 · Dec 6, 2006

crash tests

Superidler, there is a lot of confusion about the EuroNCAP crash tests.
This is what I know.
1. EuroNCAP (website www.euroncap.com) Consumers Test has never tested a Chinese car. You can see that at their website (note the terrible result of the 2005 Korean Chevrolet Matiz, only 2 star, 2005 Korean Chevrolet Aveo, only 1 star!)
2. One partner of EuroNCAP, the German ADAC has tested together with the Dutch and Austrian consumers organisations, the Landwind X6, partly under EuroNCAP conditions. They did this outside EuroNCAP. The reason why one of the partners of EuroNCAP tested a car outside EuroNCAP (the only one ever!) has never been given. There were rumours that German car manufacturers (GM Opel?) had sponsored ADAC to do so. There were no stars given, but probably the result of the Landwind was about two stars.
3. The contra-test Landwind Benelux had arranged was another test, the European Car Admission Test, necessary to have a car admitted on the streets in Europe, with other parameters: for instance the front crash by EuroNCAP is with 64 km/h, the European test is with 50 km/h. (The EuroNCAP test is just a consumer test, no obligation to pass it to get a car licensed in Europe! Most of the cars in Europe never has been tested by EuroNCAP and a lot will have very few stars!)
4. CATARC, the Chinese car test institute in Tianjin, has tested the Great Wall Hover under EuroNCAP cconditions. The result was, according CATARC, four stars. As far as I know, this is the only test CATARC did under EuroNCAP conditions.
5. A Russian test institute tested the Chery QQ under EuroNCAP conditions.The results were not very good, even looking worse than the Chevrolet Matiz, I can't remember if there were stars given, looking at the photos I estimate the car at one star.
6. Now Brilliance (or the European Brilliance importer HSO) stated that the Brilliance BS6 (= Zhonghua Junjie) had passed the EuroNCAP with two stars.
I don't know where the car is tested, but it is possible that Brilliance tested the car itself under EuroNCAP conditions. Or that it has been tested by EuroNCAP, but that the official results are not yet given.

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erik (laofan) cmvdc

· #18 · Dec 6, 2006

Brilliance crash test

6. I now read that the test with the Brilliance is done by TUV Nord in Germany, they have done the Dekra-Frontalcrashs according ECE-Parameters which has been passed (this is the one I spoke about under 3. Landwind, the 50 km test, which is necessary in Europe) and the did voluntarily a test according EuroNCAP. This test was passed with two stars.

superidler

· #19 · Dec 7, 2006 (Edited)

Thanks for the info erik

note the terrible result of the 2005 Korean Chevrolet Matiz, only 2 star, 2005 Korean Chevrolet Aveo, only 1 star!

You might get me wrong. I didn't write the comment to bash the chinese car.
I also don't think Daewoo is a safe car either (Actually, it's very easy to find their cars. just look at the car with one or 2 stars

). I doubt the crash result when the detail or info is not available regardless the manufacture. I think I mentioned eailier in other thread how hyundai fooled korean about the safety decade ago. Unlike 10 years ago, we have a broadband connection so we can see with our eye rather than beliving the words from the news

There were rumours that German car manufacturers (GM Opel?) had sponsored ADAC to do so. There were no stars given, but probably the result of the Landwind was about two stars.

I heard about the rumor as well. Just my point was if there was any different between 2 tests from those video clips. For the similar result, one failed and the other passed. I'm not an expert but I can compare those video clips to others,which had the test under the same condition, at least.

And IMO, landwind was hard to get two star

http://www.euroncap.com/content/safety_ratings/details.php?id1=2&id2=35

http://www.euroncap.com/images/resu...car_250_2006/Chevrolet Aveo Datasheet (2).pdf

This is the clip of Aveo and landwind doesn't look any better than this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PBQ9CRRswk

IMo, landwind looks slightly worse than Aveo, just look how the front dash come upto the driver.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5ldAeTVXtAE

And this is the reason I was wondering why there is no info for the crash test. Just want to see so can compare to others ourselves. Also, the landwind crash test affected the reputation of chinese cars. And if Brilliiance archeived 2 stars, it would be a good chance to promote thoese image of chinese cars that show chinese cars has a reasonable saftey based on its price.

Anyway, I think china is heading to a right direction lol

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,20867,20872169-36375,00.html

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