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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3678554a30,00.html

Mr Li has claimed in the past that his Geely cars would be on sale in the United States by 2008 but now he refuses to put a timetable on it.

"We should not be anxious for success. We have made some achievements after working hard on auto industry development for over 10 years. Our next step is to broaden our road and solidify our base."
Geely knocked out of the US market.

Will Chery be able to make it?
 

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This is SO wrong...............

Real_I_Hate_China said:
http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3678554a30,00.html


Geely knocked out of the US market.

Will Chery be able to make it?

WHY do you do this China hater??????? You took ONE small part of the entire article and quoted it, and then you added your own FALSE TRUTH?? First of all, if anyone reads the ENTIRE story, then they will discover that the story is actually a very POSITIVE one about Li Shufu and how Geely has grown so quick iin just eight years!! Second, NOWHERE in the story does it say ANYTHING about Geely being "knocked out of the US market" - NOWHERE!!!!!!!! OK, maybe Geely won't keep it's timeline as far as entering the US market by 2008...........we'll see what happens when 2008 gets here. IN ANY CASE, what you are doing is taking one small part of the story and then giving the APPEARANCE of a negative article.........you should be ashamed. NO ONE ELSE on this forum does these kinds of things - everyone else here (from what I read at least) is open minded and contributes in a positive manner. If I were the admin of this forum, I would think seriously about throwing you out - but I suppose every forum needs a negative person like you to keep things "balanced".

The TRUTH of the story is that Geely is not putting pressure on themselves as far as giving a definitive timeline for entry into the US market. Geely WILL enter the US market WHEN THEY FEEL THEY ARE READY.......THAT is the truth. ENOUGH of your negative spin, China hater.........you actually come close to slander when you say "Geely knocked out of the US market".

To everyone else - make sure you read the ENTIRE story (China hater at least provided a link, I give him credit for that) before you develop a opinion on this, OK? Personally, I give Geely credit for being honest and telling the truth - thank you Li Shufu!!
 

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Yep, it's a very positive article.

Li is very smart to not "push" for US sales - until they're ready. Profit is the #1 concern in business, not "bragging rights".

When Chinese cars come to US shores, I want them to be ready. I don't want to endure crappy cars for many years and then get good cars. We should have good cars from day 1.
 

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BringIt said:
Yep, it's a very positive article.

Li is very smart to not "push" for US sales - until they're ready. Profit is the #1 concern in business, not "bragging rights".

When Chinese cars come to US shores, I want them to be ready. I don't want to endure crappy cars for many years and then get good cars. We should have good cars from day 1.
yes you wouldnt want them to go through the tough image impression that hyundai first experienced...
it took them 10 years to rid them of the excel image
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
yes you wouldnt want them to go through the tough image impression that hyundai first experienced...
That's not a fate that Geely or Chery can avoid. Geely or Chery's JD Power initial quality scores are in excess of 400; American car buyers haven't seen cars with such poor quality in over two decades. Unless Chery and Geely quality improves three fold to drop the quality score rating to below 130, they will be instantly labeled as junk cars.
 

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yo hater why do you always think chinese cars comming to US is such poor quality? the chinese cars in china may be but not the ones comming to US. just look at chery, they got italian design, and austrian engineer, its just that it happens to be made in china. if china can make good quality bmw and toyota's it could certainly make good chinese cars.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
why do you always think chinese cars comming to US is such poor quality?
Because they are of poor quality, as documented by JD Power's Chinese car quality survey.

the chinese cars in china may be but not the ones comming to US. just look at chery, they got italian design, and austrian engineer, its just that it happens to be made in china.
In poor quality, of course.

if china can make good quality bmw and toyota's it could certainly make good chinese cars.
Those that attain high quality ratings are the ones with least amount of Chinese produced content; remember Honda has two Fits; the ones intended for Chinese domenstic market has a 40% Chinese supplied content; the ones destined for Euro export has less than 10% Chinese supplied content. Why would Honda not use Chinese supplied content for Euro market vehicles?

Think about that. You cannot build an export quality car with Chinese supplied parts, that's the harsh reality.
 

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Real_I_Hate_China said:
Those that attain high quality ratings are the ones with least amount of Chinese produced content; remember Honda has two Fits; the ones intended for Chinese domenstic market has a 40% Chinese supplied content; the ones destined for Euro export has less than 10% Chinese supplied content. Why would Honda not use Chinese supplied content for Euro market vehicles?
Because Honda want people like you to buy the cars, they make these claims of it being a different vehicle. I doubt it's completely true, and I am sure that they are working hard to validate increased local content, but they probably won't then go and make a big noise about it.

Overseas car makers are trying to get more chinese content into their overseas built cars to improve the value for money.

China market is different to overseas, so are the cars. Biggest selling cherys in china are the QQ at about 5k USD and the Qiyun at about 8-10k, whereas for the usa they are talking about 19k. Different consumers, different car.

Have a good wekend mate.
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
Because Honda want people like you to buy the cars, they make these claims of it being a different vehicle.
Honda has to source 40% of content from China in order to avoid being classified as an import car and hit with a 30% import tax. Honda faces no such limitation for export cars, so they simply choose not to use any Chinese supplied parts.

As for quality, even Malay cars are of higher quality than Chinese.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchina/2006-05/26/content_600837.htm

"Although the quality of Protons and Peroduas are lower than international, mostly Japanese, brands, Chinese vehicles are still lower than that (the quality of Protons and Peroduas)," Asher said.
The less Chinese parts you have, the better.
 

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omg hater, my darn point is no one has ever inspected or seen any of the chery cars that are comming to the US. Screw the cherys driving around china right now, im talking about he future cars comming to US, the M14, and B13 etc. have you ever been in one, who told you the m14 and B13 is crap, did JD powers inspected it, did anyone on this forum ever sat inside one? drove one? crash one? Hater you stare at you computer reading a few articles, looking at a few pictures and saying the cars suck when they are not even in production yet. while all the visionary vechical team went to wuhu, saw the car plant, drove the darn car, and invest millions into it, and you think they are all stupid!
 

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Real_I_Hate_China said:
The less Chinese parts you have, the better.
Honda Accord, according to the Vice CEO of Guangzhou Honda Automobile's speech in December 2005's PKU Business Review Yearly Conference, has a "Chinese Parts Rate" of 96%.

http://biz.163.com/05/1220/15/25E6N6B700020QDS.html

It has contiunously been the No.1 bestseller of medium sedan in China. Despite of the Anti-Japanese protest/sentiment, in the year 2005 alone 113,999 China made Accord are sold in China and it generally enjoys a very high reputation in reliablity.

Beijing Hyundai SONATA, with it's 68% Chinese parts, still suffer from relatively poor reputation in China and can't sell even its price is much lower than Accord.

:lol:

You don't make a claim by your blind assessment, you talk by numbers.

Malay cars? I am sorry in China there are very very few, if not "NONE", Malay cars. Since you "know" they are better and more reliable than Chinese cars, maybe you can be one of the first malay car importers and make some money outta it. bonne chance :lol:
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Honda Accord, according to the Vice CEO of Guangzhou Honda Automobile's speech in December 2005's PKU Business Review Yearly Conference, has a "Chinese Parts Rate" of 96%.
Well, no wonder Honda doesn't export its Chinese Accord.

Beijing Hyundai SONATA, with it's 68% Chinese parts, still suffer from relatively poor reputation in China and can't sell even its price is much lower than Accord.
Poor reputation my ass. Hyundai as a brand is extremely competitive, they are running out of capacity and is madly building up the capacity to 1 million/year to meet the demand.

The fact that best selling Hyundai is Elantra(The best selling car in China in 2005) and not Sonata simply reflects the income level of Hyundai's primary market, the relatively poorer region around Beijing as opposed to wealthier southern coast region where Honda is located.

Malay cars? I am sorry in China there are very very few, if not "NONE", Malay cars.
Of course not.

Since you "know" they are better and more reliable than Chinese cars, maybe you can be one of the first malay car importers and make some money outta it. bonne chance
Actually Proton was already in the US in the 80s and was driven out of market due to poor quality. This was the fate of Malay cars that have higher quality than Chinese cars.
 

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Real_I_Hate_China said:
Well, no wonder Honda doesn't export its Chinese Accord.


What a POMPOUS, ARROGANT attitude...........Honda doesn't export it's Chinese Accord BECAUSE IT SELLS EVERY ONE OF THEM IN CHINA AS FAST AS THEY CAN MAKE THEM............it has NOTHING to do with quality!!! As far as the China Accord having a 96% "chinese parts rate"..........the J.D. Power IQS (initial quality survey) for 2005 (the most recent survey available) gives the CHINESE Honda Accord a rating of 110 (the U.S. average score is 118, by the way) - MORE than enough quality to be sold in the U.S. market IF HONDA WANTED TO!!!! Honda doesn't NEED to do that - they already build the Accord in the U.S as it is.

You know China hater, be careful with that Toyota you drive.......Toyota (and GM as well) are in negotiations right now with several Chinese companies regarding having more of their parts MADE IN CHINA and then exported to the USA..........next time you have your Toyota fixed the shop might be using CHINESE PARTS:eek: :thumb: !!!

Now as far as Geely is concerned (the original subject of this thread)..........yes, Geely DOES need to improve it's quality if it wants to be a success in the USA. I'm not exactly sure what Geely's IQS score was (above 400), but you ARE right, China hater........Geely WILL need to improve that score a lot. Here are a few excerpts from the J.D. Power IQS from Dec. 2005 -

"The study finds initial vehicle quality in China averages 236 PP100—an improvement of 11 percent (or 29 PP100) from 2004. Problems reported since the 2000 study have declined by nearly 50 percent."

"The influx of newly launched models that excel in initial quality in the China market is raising the competition to a higher level," said John Humphrey, senior vice president and managing director of J.D. Power Asia Pacific China operations. "The current average for newly launched models is 177 PP100—compared with 242 PP100 for existing models—a true testament to the rising number of high quality vehicles available to Chinese consumers."

So, the industry average for NEW models in China is now 177....not too bad and MUCH improved from the overall average of 236. It's STILL not up to the american average of 118...........by my POINT is that Chinese cars ARE IMPROVING in quality and these FACTS prove it. Chinese car companies are VERY aware of the quality improvements they need to make in order to market and sell their cars in the USA, and they are working hard to reach that level. The FACT that the Chinese Honda Accord can reach a IQS rating of 110 is PROOF that Chinese cars (and parts) CAN reach that level......the other companies (Chery, Geely, Xiali, etc..) are learning and getting better year by year, month by month, and even day by day!!
 

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Real_I_Hate_China said:
Well, no wonder Honda doesn't export its Chinese Accord.
lol, jmsteiny said all


Real_I_Hate_China said:
Poor reputation my ass. Hyundai as a brand is extremely competitive, they are running out of capacity and is madly building up the capacity to 1 million/year to meet the demand.
Competitive my ass in CHINA, it can't sell.

Only those who can't afford an Accord/Camry but want a car of similar size would actually buy a SONATA in China 'coz it's like 5,000 US dollars cheaper than an Accord of which the sales number is like 3~4 times larger.



Real_I_Hate_China said:
The fact that best selling Hyundai is Elantra(The best selling car in China in 2005) and not Sonata simply reflects the income level of Hyundai's primary market, the relatively poorer region around Beijing as opposed to wealthier southern coast region where Honda is located.
The best selling car in China in 2005 is NOT Elantra. I remember I've corrected you once and you don't seem to want to admit it.

The fact is, if those people who bought Elantra had enough money to spend on their cars, they would choose an Accord or Passat.

The reason why Elantra was a success in 2005 is because it did not have enough competitors like Civic which is imported and sells more expensive than a SONATA.


Real_I_Hate_China said:
Actually Proton was already in the US in the 80s and was driven out of market due to poor quality. This was the fate of Malay cars that have higher quality than Chinese cars.
Like I really care.
 

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I remembered it that I've read about an article of Beijing Hyundai was trying to export near 20,000 SONATA to Russia...

While in the same time, you need to pay an extra of 3,000 US dollars than the recommended price of Guangzhou Honda to be able to get an Accord, if you don't want to wait for like a year to receive your key.

Apparently, SONATA can't sell in China. ;)

Who is trying to block up China's auto exports gate

On October 20, 2004, Beijing Hyundai Motor Co. declared its plan of exporting 19,000 Sonata entire cars to Russia was at risk of abortion. It also disclosed that the causation rested on its car model supplier—Hyundai Motor Co. in South Korea (HMC).

Russia is one of the main exporting destinations for HMC but the export of Beijing Hyundai products to Russia is surely to bring a tremendous impact on a series of HMC's current products. Compared with HMC, the labor cost of Beijing Hyundai is much lower, and its price enjoys an absolute advantage in comparison to HMC's similar products.
........
the whole story:
http://en.ce.cn/Insight/200412/30/t20041230_2715728.shtml
 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Competitive my ass in CHINA, it can't sell.
Then you must be crying to see streets of Beijing flooded with Hyundais.

Only those who can't afford an Accord/Camry but want a car of similar size would actually buy a SONATA in China 'coz it's like 5,000 US dollars cheaper than an Accord of which the sales number is like 3~4 times larger.
No, people of coastal cities buy cars made near them, namely Honda.
People of Beijing buy cars made near them, namely Hyundai.

And the fact that southern region tend to be wealthier than northern region affect which types of car they buy. For example, Honda Civic is doing horribly in China right now(~200 cars/month), inspite of it being the most competitive Honda product. The fact that best selling Honda is the Accord and the best selling Hyundai is Elantra simply reflects the income level of primary buyers in their respective regions.

The fact is, if those people who bought Elantra had enough money to spend on their cars, they would choose an Accord or Passat.
More like they will simply upgrade to next Hyundai, namely NF yuxiang. But it will be a number of years before the personal income level of northern region catches up to southern coastal region.

Like I really care.
Yes you should. That's the fate of Chinese cars in developed markets.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
What's so strange about Tiggo's posting is that he refuses to talk about competitiveness of Chinese vehicles, instead prefering to debate which foreign vehicle is better, which doesn't concern Chinese auto industry in anyway what so ever.
 

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Real_I_Hate_China said:
Then you must be crying to see streets of Beijing flooded with Hyundais.
Yeah, flooded with Hyundai cabs of course, only cab companies are buying Hyundais.


Real_I_Hate_China said:
No, people of coastal cities buy cars made near them, namely Honda.
People of Beijing buy cars made near them, namely Hyundai.

And the fact that southern region tend to be wealthier than northern region affect which types of car they buy. For example, Honda Civic is doing horribly in China right now(~200 cars/month), inspite of it being the most competitive Honda product. The fact that best selling Honda is the Accord and the best selling Hyundai is Elantra simply reflects the income level of primary buyers in their respective regions.
You do have a point there, but the fact that Beijing, as the capital city of China, is one of China's wealthiest cities maybe after Shanghai. The income level in Beijing is not that low, people make almost as much as those in Shanghai or Guangzhou regardless of the fact that the surrounding areas of Beijing are relatively less developped than their southern counterparts. There are quite many people are buying Hyundai products in Beijing and all over China too.

You do not know the situation in China, the reason CIVIC is doing horribly is because there was NO China made CIVIC before 2006; each CIVIC imported costs almost as much as a Guangzhou made Accord, more expensive than SONATA. That's the reason it can't compete with other domestic brands like Elantra or GM Excelle which are like 5,000~7,000 USD cheaper. Only those hardcore Japan Honda fans, or those who got their heads hit on the door, would spend 25,000 USD on a CIVIC.

Civic is being produced this year in Dongfeng Honda's plant. if the price is not too crazy, the quality and reliabilty is decent, it's gonna hit the Elantra's sales' number for sure.

Real_I_Hate_China said:
More like they will simply upgrade to next Hyundai, namely NF yuxiang. But it will be a number of years before the personal income level of northern region catches up to southern coastal region.
Then why did those in Beijing who could afford a Hyundai NF yuxiang did not spend the money on a Hyundai? you remind me of the fact that Hyundai NF is doing even much much worse than its brother SONATA.

The Hyundai NF debuted in China last september, Beijing Hyundai only managed to sell 2,700 of them by the end of 2005. even more horrible than the SONATA. WHY? because it doesn't even have the price advantage against Accord. You really think you are of the same league with Honda Accord? Chinese car buys don't think so, those who can afford a car of 25,000 USD will definetly choose a Japanese/European car than the SONATA/NF, especially in China because there are plenty of candidates to choose from.

We are NOT Korean, we do not love the brand "Hyundai". Chinese love to buy European or Japanese cars like Volkswagen or Honda, and a Hyundai costs as much as an Accord? lol, no way they are buying it. that's why the current position of SONATA/NF is so embarrassing.



Real_I_Hate_China said:
Yes you should. That's the fate of Chinese cars in developed markets.
Are you saying you are one of those fortune tellers who live on their cristal balls? :lol:
 
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