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it's stupid...beacuse of landwind fiasko at crash test...many other chinese company now have problems....all of them are in "bad voice"..they are unsafe...bad quality and so...but compare landwind and gwm??? gwm is 10 times bigger than landwind...more suvs,pick up...and so....they are better company than a landwind...bit it's isn't matter...the only thing which will attract the buyers is the price! i think that hover and safe models from gwm are better from landwind...also landwind must have new crash test...and i hope that it will be better than a first time
 

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yes..gwm safe also passed the crash test,you have the pictures somewhere here...glad to see you here,it's hard for me to talk on russian forum...because translation program don't translate ok,this forum is for all gwm fans thru the world...it's ok...we can share our expiriences with GWM
 

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ok, let's go step by step...there is two courts in progress, one in italy and one in china, i have info from the first hand and fiat many time delay that court...so i think that this information is false, one court which was in great britan where is car homolgated...is done, and they refuse the law suit from fiat(i read that somewhere but i can't confirm but car is over 90% homolgated in britan), also there is another thing..italian law will sure get the desicion on fiat...and chinese...of course on GWM, so i am quite wondering how will this happen...no matter...i already plan to order some peri models, i like it

also peri is still in homolgation progress...most of it are done...but there is still plenty of work to do on some small matters, second model which will hit the market in europe is STEED(wingle)model

i am sure that GWM wount pay a dime for it and there is always possibility to change something in the car before entering market in european union
 

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mememe said:
It would be very nice if you can just try to dig out some sources and links for everything above :)

Thanks for the info Mico


PS : if the homologation progress was done in the U.K then what are the chances of it going on sale in the UK ?
you see now what they say..now is already 50000 euros, soon will be that fiat will buy gwm because they want to stop producing of peri....i can't belive what the press are doing, peri is already exported in many countries...near europe it's ukraine,turkey,russia, is african countries it's alredy exported over 5000 vehicles...they can's stop the selling of PERI because of one stuff which i hear that must be...it say, car must be 75% smillar to other product so you can call it a copy...peri is not....end of story :D

first car which will hit the market in U.K is steed (wingle), he is already prepared with sterring wheel on right side, engine will be 2.4 mivec mitsubishi gasoline engine
 

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wxw30 said:
when is the wingle scheduled to enter the UK?
still I don't know the 100% sure date, but can be very very soon :)

to DAEWOO...if you follow the products of gwm...most of those cars are based on isuzu, hover is also based on isuzu axiom, gwm for long year have coperration between isuzu and them, even this engine 2.8 TC diesel is based on isuzu tehonology, by outside elements steed/wingle don't have any part which is smillar to d-max model, interior is the same like they did from axiom model in hover, that interior was in d-max in 2005-2006 year model, in 2007 isuzu change it and gwm buys that old interior..now install it on also in sailor model,alo the homolgated engine for european market is mitsubishi mivec 24 gasoline while isuzu most of it offer is based on diesel engines 2.5 and 3-0

many chinese cars after that install it also,some models of zx auto, landwind...bla bla bla
 

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this I can say that is a old news :) i already got his information 3 week ago when progress was done,hehe,also i have all documentation from VCA, i can't wait to order it...name for europe will be STEED like it's sold in south africa,mass production of that model will be very soon, i hope that i will be able to order it maybe for one month

personaly wingle is a good car...but i will like it more when i drive it with gasoline engine...136 HP!!!! + LPG on it :) :) :) that rulessss
 

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by the homolgation progress car must pass regular ECE R94 and R95 regulation, i have those test reports and i can tell you for sure that car is safe, for homolgation progress you don't must to give the vehicle to euroncap institute, my car how have over 25000 km and car is very good, for now i didn't have any accident and big problems with it

personaly i would like that gwm put the steed at ncap test to compare that results with other car makers
 

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here i find a note from chinese stock exchange


chinese court dismiss law suit from fiat


and here is a result, picture of expert which made a 3d comparation between panda and peri, orange color is what look like panda...not more that 5% of it
 

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erik (laofan) said:
Hello Micodeljia, this picture is used by Fiat in her Turin case against Great Wall.
The whole case is amazing: Fiat == Great Wall, Turin == Shijiazhuang, Italy (Europe) == China?
Even the comment on this picture is reversed to your opinion:
"This computer-enhanced photo of the Great Wall Peri shows in orange what sources say are the only design differences between the Peri and the Fiat Panda."
See: http://www.autonews.com/apps/pbcs.d.../COPY01/829890072/-1/chicgo&template=printart

I am very sorry to say so, because I like their enthousiasm (and a lot of Chinese friends think the same about this ..) but Great Wall (like BYD) is a bloody copier.
Examples:
Great Wall Hover: body inspired by Isuzu Aixom.
Great Wall Wingle: front end copied from Volkswagen Magellan.
Great Wall Peri: body copied from Fiat Panda.
Great Wall Florid: body copied from Toyota/ Scion xA.
Great Wall Phenom (I7): body based on Toyota Yaris.
Great Wall Feelfine (CH051): body based on Toyota Rectis/Corolla Verso.
Great Wall Coolbear; body inspired by Toyota/Scion xB.
Great Wall Cowry (V08): body inspired by Toyota Noah.
And when I say "inspired" I am very friendly.
I haven't talked about the platforms of of the cars, but I think they are copied from the Toyota Yaris.
Greetings,
ok...let's go step by step, i am informed that gwm had somekind of cooperation between them and fiat,and somewhere that failed, now is very difficult to discuss about it but here is what it is

great wall cooperation with toyota, long time gwm did a joint venture jobs for toyota, even some parts are equal to toyota parts, and od some car's there was parts with orginal toyota logo on it,also great wall buy whole production line of toyota and then the models like deer(toyota hilux 2001 model) and safe (old toyota 4 runner) was produced, also with that GW 1.3 EFI engine produced by great wall toyota give their tehnology to them,long time gwm buys some old models of toyota,the same is like mitsubishi engine, gwm always have older versions of engines, we can all wonder how that coolbear, florid and other models was made

great wall with isuzu, great wall long time work with isuzu, especcialy because of engines, 4JB1 ISUZU, GW4D28 ENGINE...and all newer diesel engines from gwm are based on isuzu, also gwm buy a licence from isuzu for axiom model, because that model have very bad selling results in american market...and still it was quite useful, italians torino design did a whole new mask of hover...so you can't say that hovere is a copy of isuzu, becase gwm legal buy that,the same situation is for wingle....wingle is a vehicle completly based on isuzu-dmax model, interior is the same like from old model od d-max, also that rear bumper and chasis, as i know volkswagen used that concept for their newer cars in group like audi q7 etc, ant that car was never in production

in this modern time it's always easier way to outbuy some older model and do a restyiling if is possible, especcially this is popular in china, many other european brands there still selling their older models...like jetta, peugeot 206, citroen bx bla bla bla, so i hope that in future they will start to produce models which is orginal, this will be also very difficult because in R&D department of gwm there is many workers from europe, japan etc..
 

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erik (laofan) said:
Hello Micodelija,

I agree with your conclusion "i hope that in future they will start to produce models which are orginal", I am happy our dispute brings us to the same conclusion.
Still I don't agree with a number of things you are telling. It would be nice if you have any proof to show me that I am wrong.

Fiat-Great Wall: there has never been any cooperation between Fiat and Great Wall. I wonder if it is someone from Great Wall who tells you this?

Toyota-Great Wall: Great Wall never worked for Toyota. The fact that Great Wall has at sometime used original Toyota parts doesn't prove anything: Chery used VW parts for their Fengyun (Toledo) chassis, VW complained about this at SAIC, at that time partner in Chery, and SAIC decided to drop out Chery. And than Chery was blocked by Chinese court to use any VW parts. And note this wonderful Landcruiser story, at picture 4 you can see the logo of the Huaxiang Fuqi, which in fact the car is. http://free.21cn.com/forum/bbsMessageList.act?currentPage=1&bbsThreadId=1569609.
No, like so many Chinese SUV companies (maybe more than 10) Great Wall just uses the Toyota models as their great example, without any approval.
Their small, new Toyota copies like Coolbear and Florid are designed by TJ Innova in Shanghai. In 2006 at the Beijing show the TJ Innova booth was near the Great Wall booth, I asked the TJ Innova general manager how he could explain me the fact that TJ Innova copied all these Toyota models, and he replied that China has a right to copy foreign models as long as China is backward to these countries. So TJ Innova thinks it has a right to steal till China is fully developed. They told me nothing about any agreement with Toyota.

The stories about the Hover and the Wingle are also not true, there is not any relationship or agreement between Great Wall and Isuzu. I wonder who does you believe this, can you give me any proof. Again, I can imagine people at Great Wall can say things like this, just to defend or justify themselves.

I agree cars nowadays are look-a-likes, (they were that already in the 1920s!!), but still there are companies, also in China, who make interesting new models which are not bloody copies, for instance like Brilliance.

Micodelija, I hope you can give some proof (I really hope I am wrong) but unless that, I will remain to my ideas.
you have intresting opinion...but here is my, i don't know why you always look for some kind of proff? does small people who want to buy cheap car and have cheap expences for it care about it? i am not a lawyer to bother with things like this...and personaly i really don't care about it :) until all of my cars works ok

first models of great wall, deer, safe...i saw in that company whole production line, on some of them there is still toyota logo on it,i am sure that nobody put the stickers of toyota logo's on it, so by my opinion gwm must contact them and outbuy that production line, so you can't say that gwm don't have any cooperation with toyota, i am not in top managment of great wall to know what they do, but by this what i see it was my conclusion

same is with isuzu, some vehicles from great wall have original engine of isuzu on it, that 4JB1 enigne, with isuzu logo on it,so this means that company cooperate with them....now gwm produce that engine by their own, called 4D28 engine, same is with that mitsubishi engine in hover 4G64..i saw in company the same engine with great wall logo on it and it's called GW2.4S engine

for fiat i know that fiat try to find a partner for chinese market because there they have very bad selling results, i hear that they already change couple of partners which produce vehicles from them, we can all wonder how peri was designed...by my opinion i think that some europeans which work in gwm...used this idea and finalized it, the same story was in cherry when daewoo enginerrs was sacked and lost job, they find a job in china and bring there all documentation for procudtion of daewoo matiz model,just sold it there like cherry qq model
 

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thank you my friend on your nice wishes :) i also hope that buisness will go very well, especially when we got new vehicles from passenger car segment :thumb:, on the opening was 2 televisons, 10 press medians, local politicians,managers of big companies, president of the county and chinese ammbasador :)

i also expect that opening will be very soon also on great wall official website
 

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very soon we will have new hover and wingle pick up with euro 4 engines, this in showroom are old models which are all euro 3 but have OBD sistem, also most of them we usually sold with LPG, so you don't must to pay a taxes for emmison

also new coming passenger cars are all euro 4, like peri, florid, coolbear, cowry
 

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erik (laofan) said:
Production of Safe is nearly zero this year: First 6 months 2009:
Hover 26.804; Safe 89; Sing 0.
I have no pickup figures.
where you get this information? is it public?
by my opinion it's good that GWM stop the production of those older models, simply now in 2009 year i think that they don't need to produce those models, maybe it will be better for them to produce new and more modern suv's like hover is

as i know safe is still popular on markets like russia, sing is selling in south africa as multiwagon model, and deer pick up have many production lines in africa and some contries near vietnam or indonesia, also wingle is having good selling results, they just enter australian market and in last month wingle was best selling pick up in italy,over 150 units was sold
 

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hm...intresting, today i send an email to great wall about this company, they never hear for it and never sign any contract with it :rolleyes:
 
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