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I have to go with micodelija on this one. My first Great Wall was bought in 2007. Ever since i had Hover, Peri, Haval m1, Wingle 3, Wingle 5, Haval h5…
The quality was good from the start, there were some minor faults that i commented on a casual mail with the sales representative regarding the welding of the door panels on the wingle 3. The next day I had in my inbox a form to better explain what was the problem and how I think they could improve it.
They are committed to improve the quality, if something goes wrong they don’t go on denial they face the problem.
I can honestly say that there are great improvements between wingle 3 and wingle 5, H5 is a much better car than Hover.
The older models I sold are well passed the 100.000 km’s barrier, and that being driven on 4x4 roads, with low quality diesel oil, in a tough climate.
 

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Dieselhover, I sense that Mico has some connection to GW. No point responding to his comments. Anyone that keeps saying it costs millions of dollars to design a new flywheel housing to fit the Hyundai 5-speed auto behind the 2.5TCi either doesn't know much about auto design or has some other agenda. And, how could anyone compare the H3/H5 with the H6 (a completely different size vehicle and market segment)? By the way, the two 4S dealers here in my city are having a tough time selling the new H6. Like me, the Chinese customers don't like the appearance.

The 2.0VGT's problem with blown cylinder head gaskets and turbocharger oil leaks is frustrating. Although they bought the design from Kia, they are using lower quality Chinese parts now. And this is the result. The 6-speed manual transmission is just plain dangerous. With the weak detent spring, you accidentally shift into reverse when you are trying to shift into first. That's totally incompetent design that shouldn't be happening in year 2011. How could any respectable carmaker test this truck and put it on the market in this condition?

The 2012 high-spec 4wd H5 Euro 2.0VGT is supposed to cost 170,000 Yuan. That's USD $27,000. That's the same price as a 2-door Jeep 4wd Sahara which does have good quality and design. So the H5 is no longer cheap. For the higher price, as a customer, I do expect a more refined product. However, based on the feedback I've gotten here, the H3/H5 does continue to have quality and reliability problems.

Whenever I've been in a convenient situation to talk to a H3/H5 owner over the last 3 years, I ask them:

1) How do you like the truck?
2) How is the overall quality?
3) Have you had any problems?

I feel that I have gotten a lot of informative and realistic feedback. I haven't gotten any feedback from 2.0VGT owners because I rarely see them on the road and therefore haven't had an opportunity to talk to an owner.

Anyway, like any ordinarily prudent person that is considering purchasing a vehicle (especially a Chinese vehicle), I've been talking with H3/H5 customers whenever the opportunity presents itself (especially now since I'm stuck waiting for 2012 models to become available).

I'm not against GW. I'm open-minded and considering the purchase of an H5 (or H3) diesel. But like any potential customers, I have a right to make "constructive criticism" when I see obvious problems. For what the 2012 models cost, GW has a new and higher obligation to deliver better quality and engineering. I don't care if they outsource vehicle design. Do whatever is necessary to get the job done right. But, they're failing in their execution. Based on the 2.0VGT Euros that I drove, they clearly did not manage this new model's design well, and the problems customers are having are proof of this fact.

Car sales in China are slowing down. It's not a "crisis", but rather the cyclical car market is slowing down for a while. However, it's interesting to note that while the market as a whole is slowing, the foreign car brands are staying busy while the Chinese brands are quickly losing sales and market share.
 

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@micodelija,
WOW! You read me all wrong obviously, so please make me a favor, stop responding to my posts here, actually, this is my last post to you! You have sold your soul to GW and can't manage to read someone's post right...

I am a legit user of this forum, I post here because I was initially interested in the H5 2.0VGT auto, but for personal reasons and actual owner feedback, that has changed... I don't own a hover yet, but I am entitled to my opinion and posts as much as you or anyone here interested in GW is... After all, that is the point of this forum in case you haven't notice! You make me laugh... calling the admin on me, come on salesman, are you serious?

I don't think GW is bad, in fact I want to buy a diesel one, as my name here implies, I want to find the best diesel hover for me, don't I have the right mico? :)

Anyways... to quote your own words: "obviously there was production problem or series of car which isn't completely tested and ready for sale"
Bingo! That is what I have been talking about, nothing else actually...
and "i think you should do more pressure to great wall to fix your car and make it right for you to be safe on the road" I hope the "fools" read that!

I am done with you mico, I don't need your help or attacks, so keep selling!

@Chinesecars or anyone else that is actually helpful here,
Can you tell me what the H3 2,5tci 4x4 with the all light creme interior cost in China as a reference? (Not sure what year fits that description but I don't care about 2012 if they don't have them anymore, just want that particular vehicle), I am decided for this one with the hood scoop and sunroof so If you have any feedback on this one or even you opinion is appreciated, thank you in advance!
 

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Discussion Starter #244 (Edited)
@micodelija,
wow! You read me all wrong obviously, so please make me a favor, stop responding to my posts here, actually, this is my last post to you! You have sold your soul to gw and can't manage to read someone's post right...

I am a legit user of this forum, i post here because i was initially interested in the h5 2.0vgt auto, but for personal reasons and actual owner feedback, that has changed... I don't own a hover yet, but i am entitled to my opinion and posts as much as you or anyone here interested in gw is... After all, that is the point of this forum in case you haven't notice! You make me laugh... Calling the admin on me, come on salesman, are you serious?

I don't think gw is bad, in fact i want to buy a diesel one, as my name here implies, i want to find the best diesel hover for me, don't i have the right mico? :)

anyways... To quote your own words: "obviously there was production problem or series of car which isn't completely tested and ready for sale"
bingo! That is what i have been talking about, nothing else actually...
And "i think you should do more pressure to great wall to fix your car and make it right for you to be safe on the road" i hope the "fools" read that!

I am done with you mico, i don't need your help or attacks, so keep selling!

@chinesecars or anyone else that is actually helpful here,
can you tell me what the h3 2,5tci 4x4 with the all light creme interior cost in china as a reference? (not sure what year fits that description but i don't care about 2012 if they don't have them anymore, just want that particular vehicle), i am decided for this one with the hood scoop and sunroof so if you have any feedback on this one or even you opinion is appreciated, thank you in advance!
:)...hahahah
you two "experts" just keep discussing...i will enjoy my hover 5 :)
 

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.......... The 6-speed manual transmission is just plain dangerous. With the weak detent spring, you accidentally shift into reverse when you are trying to shift into first. That's totally incompetent design that shouldn't be happening in year 2011. How could any respectable carmaker test this truck and put it on the market in this condition?
...............
it's interesting to note that while the market as a whole is slowing, the foreign car brands are staying busy while the Chinese brands are quickly losing sales and market share.
i agree with the danger of 6 speed manual. the local dealers of gw (there will be gw models assembled in bg from kd kits) were told not test drive customers until improvement is made. the car (wingle 5, in this case) will not be sold until the improved gearbox is used. and actually there are no diesel 4x4 wingles on sale in bg - may be next year - the heavy advertisement is for gas models (i want diesel).

for foreign based established models is normal to keep sales while not yet decades proved companies suffer. it'll be the same in any business segment and in any business cycle - the long established, household names will keep the momentum and the newborn will suffer.
 

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Discussion Starter #246 (Edited)
i agree with the danger of 6 speed manual. the local dealers of gw (there will be gw models assembled in bg from kd kits) were told not test drive customers until improvement is made. the car (wingle 5, in this case) will not be sold until the improved gearbox is used. and actually there are no diesel 4x4 wingles on sale in bg - may be next year - the heavy advertisement is for gas models (i want diesel).

for foreign based established models is normal to keep sales while not yet decades proved companies suffer. it'll be the same in any business segment and in any business cycle - the long established, household names will keep the momentum and the newborn will suffer.
hi mehudi

welcome to forum :thumb:
http://www.autoruote4x4.com/it/test_drive_great_wall_steed_5_tdi.html
check this link, in italy there was almost 400 diesel pick up's imported just in first batch from 2000 vehicles, all of them with new diesel engine, media and customers are delighted with the car :thumb:, this vehicle also have european homologation, that mean complete verification already, while italians also did their national homologation too, that mean that car passed one more time thru whole homologation checking and got italian ministry of transport certificate, MOT, i really doubt that great wall will export almost 400 diesel engines in italy, which is third biggest market in europe if they don't thrust in their product and if quality were not ok, from all chinese suv and pick up brands in italy (gonow, shuanghuan) only great wall achieve good sale

about gasoline engine in italy you can buy ecodual model, that mean with LPG(GPL) installation on the car which is more friendly to environment and according to these fuel prices much economic, also during may 2011 wingle with gasoline engine was best selling italian pick up, so you can also be sure in it's quality and reliability, personally i like more gasoline versions
 

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Dieselhover, when I asked earlier this year about the price of a high end H3 2.5TCi 4wd with all options (including the touch screen navigation system) I was told 143,00 Yuan, which is 16,520 Euros or USD $22,500.

I will keep you informed. I might end up getting the H3 2.5TCi too. It's ashame. If the 2.0VGT was built to the same quality standards as when Kia produced it, and then add the imported Hyundai 5-speed auto transmission, the H5 would have a nice drivetrain (the only problem being GW went cheap on the Borg-Warner TOD transfer case and didn't buy the version with low range -- the H3 2.5TCi has a low range transfer case).
 

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Chinesecars,
Our local dealer is supposed to call me to tomorrow to test drive a brand new H5 2.0 VGT with auto transmission they sold to local customer. I am specially interested about engine response with that tranny, but I feel pretty much that with the existing issues with this engine, and cheaper parts involved, its a coin toss to buy this vehicle.

I am pretty much sold on the about 1000 Euros cheaper H3 2.5 TCI True 4X4. I hope I can eventually test drive one of those to make my final decision, but just as the car that arrives tomorrow, the new diesels are a first ever in this country, and all that I see around here is 2008 old 2.8TC Hovers :)
 

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Okay, let me know what you think. With my first H5 2.0VGT test drive, that truck had no power in the lower RPMs (before the turbo kicks in, but also where we spend a lot of time driving). The later trucks were better, IF the air conditioning was turned off. But with the air conditioned turned on, it was very slow in the lower RPMs.

The 2.5TCi has plenty of power all the time under all conditions. But I was disappointed with the 5-speed manual's poor shift quality (inferior synchronizer design). I was also disappointed with "startability", meaning the truck's 3.90 rear axle ratio is too high (low numerically) for the transmission's 1st gear ratio (it's a bad match). You are forced to slip the clutch some to get going with the 235/70R16 tires (or 235/65R17 - same height), which isn't a good thing. The problem is the 3.90 rear axle ratio, which is usually for a 2wd pickup with smaller tires. To solve that problem, all the H3/H5 should have a 4.10 axle ratio. This is another example of poor GW engineering. They probably wanted to use their usual 2wd pickup truck rear axle and it had the 3.90 ratio.

A lot of people in China put 245/70R16 tires on their H3s (same size as the Nissan Paladin/Xterra), but they suffer terrible performance without the 4.10 axle ratio.
 

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Chinesecars,
I went to dealership today and saw both the Haval H5 2.0 Automatic + Haval H3 4X4 (Mitsubishi Gasoline). Anyways... after discussing with the wife we settled for Haval H3 2.5TCI since I wanted that engine and she liked the look and interior better :) Too bad about no automatic gearbox, but will be alright.

The turbo lagged, more expensive 2.0VGT just wasn't an option for us and the AWD looks better for a woman daily driver. The Haval H3 4x4 feels like a true SUV, has more "Man's Jeep" image than H5. So, just waiting on dealer to confirm availability and crossing fingers tomorrow hopefully will make booking for it.

I will keep you posted, looking like will meet my budget with all options we want included!
 

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Given that I see H3s and H5s here daily, I admit the frontal appearance of my favorite, the H3, is beginning to look a little tired. It has been around for a while now. But having said that, the front of the H5 Euro looks boring, without any exciting design expression (It looks like the grille copied Mazda). And the front fascia of the H5 Extreme is just downright ugly.

The 2.0VGT's turbo lag is bad. Ironically, a variable geometry turbo is supposed to minimize the lag and improve driveability. But that certainly isn't the case with GW's 2.0VGT.

The 2.5TCi flys. You have power all the time. (I still think all the versions would benefit with a 4.10 axle ratio over the current 3.90).

You're right, the 2.0VGT's AWD system is for women in the city. Ford began using this system, Borg-Warner TOD (Torque-on-demand) in 1996. Ford calls it Control Trac. Isuzu uses it too. BUT, their TOD system includes 2wd, Auto, 4-high and 4-low. Great Wall went the CHEAP route and cancelled the 4-high and 4-low modes. So to get a "real" 4wd system, you really have to buy the H3.
 

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Just some FYI. I read today that the Australian version of the H3 2.4L (called X240 in Australia) was recalled this year in May. All global H3 owners should take a moment to check their trucks.

(Incidently, I see Australia is now receiving the H5 2.0VGT (called X200). It comes with Bosch's Electonic Stability Program (ESP), an option only available with the H5 and the Kia 2.0VGT/Hyundai 5-speed automatic powertrain combination.
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Great Wall Motors has recalled 922 examples of the X240 compact SUV because the steering column may come into contact with the car’s brake pipe.

The recall notice placed on the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission (ACCC) website states that “it is possible that the lower section of the steering column may come into contact with the front-right hydraulic brake pipe due to the small clearance between the two.

“The column may rub against the pipe during operation resulting in a leak in the hydraulic brake pipe.”’

Owners of affected vehicles will be contacted and advised to see their local dealer for an inspection and, if necessary, a replacement brake pipe.

Public affairs consultant for Ateco Automotive – the distributor of Great Wall Motors in Australia - Daniel Cotterill, told GoAuto: “There has been an issue noted on one X240 concerning the incorrect fitment of a brake pipe in the factory.

“This has led to the recall of 922 potentially affected 2010 model X240s for inspection and rectification if necessary. None of the facelifted models (H5/X200) are included,” he said.
 

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You are right. The 2.0VGT we saw yesterday is very well suited for the city woman. It was funny... The 2.0 we were checking out was from a couple waiting for its delivery. They were installing an alarm to it, therefore the wait but looking at the color choice and her excitement I could tell she had a lot to do with the pick:)

Anyways, later, while talking to sales director, they came to check the H3, and the husband was all over that SUV :) Thankfully, in my case, the wife disapproves the look of the Euro H5 so with the addition of engine issue was not a hard decision!

Thanks for the recall update, that is nothing that a plastic tie can't fix to give enough clearance to the hydraulic brake pipe ;)
 

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Also Chinesecars,
I was given a price quote of $26,500 for Haval H3 2.5TCI 4X4 Super Luxury (CC6460KM65). Is this the same vehicle you say sells for $22,500 in China? If not, can you check actual price of this one?

I need to confirm asap so next week when I go to dealer I can discuss the extra fees involved. Thank you very much for double checking and have a good weekend!
 

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Chinesecars,
I signed the contract for 2012 H3 2.5TCI 4x4 today. It will be here around mid February they estimate. I will post pictures once it arrives. I ordered the Pearl Black exterior with Coffee interior combo which both the wife and I agreed on :)
 

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In China, the metallic gray is the best seller. And it does look good. But, I'm planning to order white, because scratches are much harder to see with white paint (no matter how hard I try, it's going to get scratched in China).

I wish they had a good looking red, blue or green. Unfortunately, most of their colors are ugly.
 

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I see, we changed interior to Black + Beige (still Black exterior) after not liking that much the seats configuration (2 colors) on the Coffee. Now, this is the final look we all agree on :)
 

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GW's website doesn't say, but there are 3 available interior color choices (at least with the leather interior) including black, beige, and a strange looking yellowish brown color. I plan to get beige.
 
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