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Interesting. In addition to GW purchasing the 5-speed automatic transmissions (model 5R35) from Hyundai Mobis (produced in Beijing), GW also purchased the design rights to Kia's last generation 2.0 CRDi VGT engine, resulting in the new GW 2.0VGT engine. If production quality is good and adaptation engineering was executed properly, should be a decent engine.

Now I know why the oil fill is at a strange angle in the H5, because in the Kia this engine is mounted transversely at a slight tilt.
 

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FYI
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BorgWarner Supplies China's First VGT Turbocharger and Torque-On-Demand (TOD) Transfer Case for Great Wall Motor Company

AUBURN HILLS, Mich., June 3, 2011 /PRNewswire/ -- For the first time, BorgWarner's variable turbine geometry (VGT) turbochargers and Torque-On-Demand (TOD) transfer cases, featuring a proprietary electronic control unit and software, are available in China. Great Wall Motor Company introduced these advanced technologies in the new 2.0-liter Hover/Haval H5 SUV. This engine also utilizes BorgWarner's self-regulating glow plugs and exhaust gas recirculation (EGR) valves. The turbocharged diesel engine will also be available in the light commercial vehicle and medium car segment soon.

"BorgWarner's advanced turbocharging and emissions technologies enable Great Wall Motor's new diesel engine to meet stringent emissions standards with excellent fuel economy, while our advanced all-wheel drive technology improves traction and enhances stability for a safer, more comfortable overall driving experience," said Timothy M. Manganello, Chairman and CEO, BorgWarner.

Great Wall Motor relied on BorgWarner's proven VGT turbocharging expertise to boost fuel efficiency and power output while reducing emissions, helping the engine comply with Euro 4 emissions standards and achieve an average fuel consumption of 34 mpg (6.8 liters/100 km). In addition, a BorgWarner EGR valve with a brushless DC motor actuator delivers precise, responsive flow control combined with high flow capability and excellent sealing, enabling the engine to meet stricter emissions standards by allowing increased EGR rates.

BorgWarner's patented TOD transfer case delivers on-demand all-wheel drive traction on combining the all-terrain capability of an SUV with the on-road handling of a passenger car. Using BorgWarner's proprietary electronic control unit (ECU) and software, TOD transfer cases automatically switch from two-wheel drive to four-wheel drive and back without driver intervention for improved traction, enhanced stability and comfort.

BorgWarner also supplies self-regulating glow plugs for quick, reliable and environmentally friendly diesel engine starting even in very low temperatures.
 

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The big news about the 2012 H5 is the number of SRS air bags (at least for the China market) grows from 2 to 6 (Driver & Passenger frontal impact air bags, side impact air bags, and side curtain air bags). Maybe export models already had that to meet overseas safety regulations?

And it now gets ESP (electronic stability program), a step up from the TCS (traction control) it had before.

The high-spec leather interior H5 gets woodgrain armrests.

Also, Bosch style "bracketless" wiper blades.

BUT STILL NO CUPHOLDERS IN YEAR 2012 FOR THE HOVER. Why Great Wall ???
 

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For some unknown reason, diesel models still aren't available with the Eaton MLocker rear differential. C'mon Great Wall, customers buying 4wd diesel SUVs want Eaton's locking differential.
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Date: September 22, 2010

Eaton Improves Traction and Stability on Great Wall's Haval H5 SUV

MARSHALL, Mich - Eaton Corporation today announced that its "MLocker" mechanical locking differential has been selected to improve the traction and stability of the new Haval (formerly Hover) H5 SUV from Great Wall Motors.

“Great Wall Motors is focused on marketing vehicles globally with drivelines that incorporate the best technology and highest quality products,” said Chris Ostrander, vice president and general manager, Torque Control Products Division. “The MLocker provides Great Wall Motors with a differentiated traction technology to favorably compete in the crowded compact SUV market in China and export markets. The system’s simplicity eliminates all electronics and requires no driver intervention, making it easily adaptable to Great Wall’s applications while enhancing the traction and stability of the vehicle.”

The Eaton MLocker is a proven technology that features a patented carbon friction disc technology to enhance performance and durability. During wheel spin, the MLocker automatically locks within a fraction of a second providing instant traction and is designed to go virtually unnoticed by the driver. No driver intervention is required. Once the need for improved traction is gone, unlocking occurs automatically. The result is enhanced vehicle safety with improved traction on a variety of surfaces, including wet roads, icy conditions, gravel, mud and dirt, plus it provides grip even when one wheel is off the road.
 

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I am an unfortunate buyer of Hover H5 2.0T diesel (manual 6-speed gearbox), harassed by endless problems

Problem 1

The Gearbox
The new 6 speed gearbox in new H5 is some half made pre-test model which was manufactured before development phase completed and without complete testing
Apart from the Reverse and First gear shifting problem, i also had other problems with the gearbox
The gearbox is designed without an adequate consideration about the engine it had to be used with
The wonderful engine quickly responds to the accelerator press and the gearbox actually retards the engine because of its limitations.
Initially i started experiencing a problem with rattling sound from gear changing shaft, more noisy at speeds above 120
This problem kept on worsening day by day, and later was also noticeable at lower speeds.
I went (repeatedly) to the 4S shop with this problem - but in vain
On every visit what i achieved was only excuses like "this is normal for a hover H5", " you should not drive your car so fast", "this is because of the heavy handle on top of the shaft, changing to a lighter one shall help"
finally after several complaints to some senior people at the 4S , they managed to have the gear shaft base changed.
As expected the new shaft base was a different base - to absorb the vibrations. The modification did reduce the problem but did not solve it.
The solution was a bad way of solving the problem, the rattling had now been compressed inside the gearbox and had changed into vibration and overheating of the gearbox
The vibration and overheating gives me a scary feeling that the gearbox shall sooner or later burst into pieces, leaving me in a bix mess
I shall rather choose to sell the car before such a day dawns.


Problem 2

The Clutch plate
The clutch that came up with the first production was different from the one that is in production today.
Just like the gearbox, the clutch plate in my car was a piece of experiment, as if just re-sized to work with the new engine and the new 6 speed gearbox
My clutch plate burnt up after about 16K kms (this is not my first car, i am driving for 27 years now, and have driven over 200K kms in China)
The clutch in no way was capable of handling the 310Nm torque which the engine can output.
The clutch burn took place on the highway after midnight, 1000 kms away from home.
I actually had to get a tow van to pull my car to a toll gate where i could get help from nearest repair station to have it replaced.





 

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Problem 2

The Clutch plate
The clutch that came up with the first production was different from the one that is in production today.
Just like the gearbox, the clutch plate in my car was a piece of experiment, as if just re-sized to work with the new engine and the new 6 speed gearbox
My clutch plate burnt up after about 16K kms (this is not my first car, i am driving for 27 years now, and have driven over 200K kms in China)
The clutch in no way was capable of handling the 310Nm torque which the engine can output.
The clutch burn took place on the highway after midnight, 1000 kms away from home.
I actually had to get a tow van to pull my car to a toll gate where i could get help from nearest repair station to have it replaced.

Not able to post many pics (could i get any help about this) - posting the pics as links

Tow1

Tow2

Tow3



Pictures of the burnt Clutch



Burnt Clutch 1



Burnt Clutch 2

Had to replace with another Toyota clutch plate of a similar size to allow me drive my way back home.
Finally when i came back home, i went to the 4S and ordered another clutch plate.
To my wonder, the new clutch plate was an Exedy clutch with a rating well above 310 Nm.


New Exedy Clutch

The sad thing is, they sold out vehicles equipped with clutch plates which are not even capable of handling he engines rated torque.
And what did they loose - Nothing! the poor customer has to suffer and they actually earn double money selling another clutch plate.

Problem 3

The Spanner sign
The spanner sign (which is supposed to be a simple indication that the car needs servicing) is the most disastrous problem i have encountered with this car
The spanner sign first appeared after the car had traveled 10K kms, just after it was serviced.
When the spanner appears, the engine enter limp mode (looses power), the engine doesnt go above 2000 rpm, 80km/h
A big problem with the spanner sign is that it is intermittent, it comes on and then soon vanishes, but the limp mode does not vanish.
I went to the 4S with this problem, and guess what - no spanner sign.
Just to persuade me, he ran a OBD diagnostic check, didnt find any errors - told me your car is fine.
I found a quick sort lived solution to this problem - power down and restart the engine. The spanner sign disappeared (at least after a few tries) and the engine regains power.
The problem persisted and at worst times, the engine refuses to start !!! The old trick of disconnecting/reconnecting the battery still worked to get the engine started again, but i felt that i was in some sort os calamity.
I visit several other 4S shops at different places, but no one was able to solve this problem.
I received several excuses though - Bad Fuel, Bad ECU, Bad Injectors and more.
The problem still prevails and has made the car a disaster vehicle.


Problem 4

The Key
The Key never works at the first press of the push button, and at bad times, doesnt work at all
Yes true, the door can be opened manually, i felt this could be done harmlessly until i was haunted by another problem.
There was a time when i repeatedly opened the key manually, since the buttons hardly worked
Then one fine day, i started the car after manually opening the door and the car just failed to start.
I could see a key sign on the dashboard, which i assume could possibly be some key recognition error.
After wasting a lot of time, the car finally started after disconnecting the battery and reconnecting it after some time.
I also took the key to the 4S, they did sth which they said had repaired the key, but this helped me only for a few days
The key still remains an unsolved mystery to me.



Problem 5

The Shocks
The shocks are nicely designed to hide all the design flaws.
With the original shocks, you get a sort shuddering/vibration at the speed of 100 km/h, thereby not daring to go further.
It was only after changing the shocks that i became aware of all these serious flaws.

Conclusion

The 4S keep on advising me not to drive fast, not to cross 3000 rpm, and tell me that this is cheap car which is bound to have all sorts of problems.
At every visit i see frowning faces, tired listening to customers complaints and lots of work load.

The Newer H5's seem to be a lot better than my car, they have improved the car from time to time, at the cost of making the customers suffer.

I have finally learnt my lesson - Never buy the first set (or second set) of production units of a Chinese car, you shall become a free testing guy for the company.
 

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Discussion Starter #149
why did you write so many copy paste posts? several time you write identical post, i am really shocked by all of this problems and wonder how is possible that such unsafe car is on the road? obviously there was production problem or series of car which isn't completely tested and ready for sale

personally i always like to avoid those new models, identical situation which you had now i had before several year ago with vw passat tdi, so many problems with that car that we never buy vw again, also this is very strong diesel engine which should follow better car quality and reputation which it had in china, i think you should do more pressure to great wall to fix your car and make it right for you to be safe on the road
 

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For now, it seems the only safe way to buy an H5 2.0VGT diesel is with the 5-speed automatic. The engine and transmission were made to work together. The 2.0VGT is the proven pre-2010 Kia 2.0 CRDi diesel, and the transmission is the Hyundai/Kia model 5R35, made by Hyundai Powertech in South Korea. I like to shift, a 6-speed manual would be great, but clearly Great Wall is having troubles (apparently they didn't but the 6-speed manual from Hyundai/Kia Group as well).
 

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why did you write so many copy paste posts? several time you write identical post
yes, the multiple posts were because i coudn't see my posts at all
every time i clicked submit reply, the browser diverted me to the main page of H5 .. and when i browse o view my post - Nothing !

And i face the same problem today -
i deleted the extra double post - worked fine
then i edited the other post to append the remaining text - and gone again !
Till now i cannot view my last post !!!
 

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Discussion Starter #152
yes, the multiple posts were because i coudn't see my posts at all
every time i clicked submit reply, the browser diverted me to the main page of H5 .. and when i browse o view my post - Nothing !

And i face the same problem today -
i deleted the extra double post - worked fine
then i edited the other post to append the remaining text - and gone again !
Till now i cannot view my last post !!!
fell no problem, contact martin krpan, he is admin here and he will make it right so we call can follow the theme right :thumb:
 

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For now, it seems the only safe way to buy an H5 2.0VGT diesel is with the 5-speed automatic. The engine and transmission were made to work together. The 2.0VGT is the proven pre-2010 Kia 2.0 CRDi diesel, and the transmission is the Hyundai/Kia model 5R35, made by Hyundai Powertech in South Korea
Yes, i had given the H5 AT a thought too, but heard from users that i had a very poor throttle response. The engine pics up very slowly since the gear shift is very slow / delayed. It doesn't feel like a 2.0T engine altogether. The MT gearbox gives a good driveability, but poor design.


I like to shift, a 6-speed manual would be great, but clearly Great Wall is having troubles (apparently they didn't but the 6-speed manual from Hyundai/Kia Group as well).
Yes, GWM did not buy the 6 speed MT gearbox from KIA, they thought of having a Chinese company (Zomax) develop it for them, probably to make it cheaper. The result was a much bigger gearbox, with the problems which i mentioned before.
 

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I agree. The 2.0VGT/auto combination feels acceptable, until you turn on the air conditioning. Then it's very slow. A 2.0-liter engine at low RPMs (prior to the turbocharger helping above 2500 RPM), should have more power. I'd buy the 2.5TCi but I like the drive belt system of the 2.0VGT much better. And internally, the 2.0VGT is simply newer and better technology. I blame Delphi, the fuel system supplier, for the power problem. Simply speaking, Delphi's technology can't compare to Bosch. The powerful 2.5 TCi has a Bosch fuel system and that Hover is fast!

Delphi began having financial troubles in 2001, filed for bankruptcy in 2005, scraped bottom thru 2009. Some private investors bought Delphi in late 2009. The company is only alive because General Motors needed the company as a supplier. Delphi is not alive because it was a great supplier. Bosch is successful, with the money to hire the best engineers. Good engineers don't work for bad, financially-troubled companies like Delphi. Good engineers are attracted to strong companies like Bosch.

Interestingly, the GW 2.0VGT was designed to accept Delphi or Bosch fuel systems. But I've only see engines with Delphi systems.
 

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The 2.0VGT's power problem really is the rear axle's 3.90 ratio. An SUV the size and weight of the H3/H5 typically has a 4.10 rear axle ratio. After driving the 5-speed manual, I could immediately feel the rear axle ratio was too high (too low numerically). If it had a 4.10 (or even 4.30) rear axle ratio, the performance would rise significantly to acceptable levels. The 3.90 is best suited for 2wd pickup trucks with smaller tires. The 3.90 ratio would be good for fuel economy, IF the 2.0VGT had more low-end power.

The 2.5TCi "does" have enough low-end power for the 3.90 ratio, but 1st gear (the 5-speed manual) is still too steep. Off road, you'll have to shift into low-range earlier than other SUVs or you'll be slipping the clutch to get started in 1st gear.
 

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Is Great Wall after sales aware of this situation ? They are offering the same engine/transmission for the H6 also. China Market feedback is not as demanding as overseas feedback, where H3/H5 is compared to segment leaders.
 

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Discussion Starter #157 (Edited)
Is Great Wall after sales aware of this situation ? They are offering the same engine/transmission for the H6 also. China Market feedback is not as demanding as overseas feedback, where H3/H5 is compared to segment leaders.
do you know how many suv gwm produce in 1 year??? there is always possibility that some of those cars are bad,check world re-calls today, almost every famous manufacture got to recall their cars and models because of some upgrade repair or something else, my father buy Volkswagen passat (1.9 tdi) and it was also complete fail, while my mother had bad experience with first generation of fiat punto, but after warranty repair car was fine, better then passat, i only hope not to much of them, i think the narry from shenzen have really big problems and he should be very demanding to the dealership about the warranty on car to solve his problem

user chinsecars...well he still didn't buy a car,so it's difficult to argue with somebody who don't have a car in their ownership
 

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The new H6 SUV is smaller and lighter than the H3/H5. The 2.0VGT should perform better in that application. The H6 appears aimed at the smaller SUVs popular with women drivers (RAV4, Tiguan, Qashqi)
 

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Discussion Starter #159

russians did a crash test of new hover h5 according to R94 homologation regulation, result is quite good, down on the link everybody can see a video, but already here from the photos we can see that passenger area is completely safe and there is no any cabin deformation, also what is good...door were able to open after impact

i am quite sure that after gwm h5 will be produced in europe, that it will be tested at euroncap test as well and finally to make better result then landwind in china SUV range

well done gwm

videos are here:
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EkR0zcvV5Hg[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGMpIwjKySc&NR=1[/ame]
[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DM9Az_Wkqag[/ame]
 
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