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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Serious question... let's think about it.

I'd venture to say that most of the folks on chinese car assembly line don't drive a car. So how can people who don't usually drive make a good car?

You really have to be passionate about cars to know how to make a good car!!!

It isn't a coincidence that daewoo and hyundai are bad cars just like those coming chinese cars. Don't think I am right? Go drive a lexus is 300 and immediately drive a BMW 330 you'll noticed the difference like night n' day. German cars and autobahn cultures go hand in hand... without one there is no other.

Come on, you know I am right... don't indulge yourself in self denial.
 

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Most auto workers in China do own cars. You can buy a car for as low as USD $3000 in China. Auto workers make about USD $600 a month in China so they can buy 2 cars with 1 years salary.
 

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asdfzxcv said:
I'd venture to say that most of the folks on chinese car assembly line don't drive a car. So how can people who don't usually drive make a good car?
I fail to see how an inability to drive has any effect on one's ability to upholster seats, screw body panels on, etc. It's an assembly process, it doesn't require special skills. If anything, I would be more concerned about the engineering and not the assembly.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Making a car involves more than just assembly, and design and engineering process are first and formost!

And creating a car without passion would end up with efforts like lexus (competently assembled but no fun) at best and daewoo, hyundai, name your chinese cars here at worst.
 

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asdfzxcv said:
Making a car involves more than just assembly, and design and engineering process are first and formost!

And creating a car without passion would end up with efforts like lexus (competently assembled but no fun) at best and daewoo, hyundai, name your chinese cars here at worst.

So you're saying all American cars like Chevy and Dodge are better than Lexus.
 

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how much money earns a Chinese car factory worker?

Dear Hazik, during my last visit to Chery (July) they told me that the average car worker at Chery gets 100 euro per month, a more specialist worker like a designer 200 euro. The parking lots at Chery are empty (only bicycles), that's why we started the discussion about this subject. Chery workers don't own cars, even the director of Chery's own design department told us that he couldn't afford a car.
 

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Every American drive, because they have to. There's no other way to get around. According to your logic, shouldn't America make the best driving machines?

Also, following your logic, astronaut should make their own space shuttles? Jet pilots should make their own jets? It does not make sense - it's the height of stupidity.
 

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asdfzxcv said:
You really have to be passionate about cars to know how to make a good car!!!

Come on, you know I am right... don't indulge yourself in self denial.
My answer to your question is:

JUST WATCH the Chinese.....

Yeah, I'll give you the part about the Lexus-BMW comparison. Afterall even the Japanese don't really get to drive much. It costs hundreds of dollars in tolls just to drive from Hokkaido in the north down into Kyushu and there is no Autobahn. But the Japanese make a good car nonetheless as do the Koreans.
Unlike us motorheads, most people only want to get from point A to point B and so a car that does that well is "a good car".
Come on, you know I am right about that....... It's all just a matter of time...
 

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Afterall even the Japanese don't really get to drive much.
This issue affects engineers only.

If engineers are driving to work, then they know the strength and shortcomings of each car they drive to work. So the question is, are Chery's company cars Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Nissan, and Volve like other companies? I know for a fact that Ford engineers who engineered Taurus drove Camry to work everyday.
 

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Real_I_Hate_China said:
...I know for a fact that Ford engineers who engineered Taurus drove Camry to work everyday.
And they still came up with the Taurus??? :confused:

So much for your theories... :nono:
 

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erik (laofan) said:
Dear Hazik, during my last visit to Chery (July) they told me that the average car worker at Chery gets 100 euro per month, a more specialist worker like a designer 200 euro. The parking lots at Chery are empty (only bicycles), that's why we started the discussion about this subject. Chery workers don't own cars, even the director of Chery's own design department told us that he couldn't afford a car.

Chery's plant is located in Anhui. Anhui is one of the poorest places so they don't have to pay as much. Auto workers in other parts of China do make $500 or more a month.


http://www.commondreams.org/headlines05/1018-09.htm

Critics say that Delphi employees, who earn an average of $27 an hour in addition to generous medical and retirement benefits, make too much to allow the company to compete. By contrast, workers at Delphi's profitable China operations earn about $3 an hour.
$3/hour x 190 hours a month = $600 /month

SAIC VW also pays $3/hour to it's auto workers
 

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Real_I_Hate_China said:
This issue affects engineers only.

If engineers are driving to work, then they know the strength and shortcomings of each car they drive to work. So the question is, are Chery's company cars Lexus, BMW, Mercedes, Toyota, Nissan, and Volve like other companies? I know for a fact that Ford engineers who engineered Taurus drove Camry to work everyday.
i agree. most automotive engineers and designers are true enthusiasts (just look at what MG-Rover came up with before their demise) and translate this passion into their work. the only problem is that their passion is diluted by the bean counters in head office. the quality of the drive has nothing to do with the manual workers, anyone can screw a car together on a production line.
 

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And they still came up with the Taurus???

So much for your theories...
Ford engineers blamed it on their bean counters. Camry shared parts with Lexus, but Ford bean counters wouldn't let the engineers use expensive parts to match Camry... And power plant wasn't the scope of their engineering, they used what was given to them.
 

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erik (laofan) said:
Dear Hazik, during my last visit to Chery (July) they told me that the average car worker at Chery gets 100 euro per month, a more specialist worker like a designer 200 euro. The parking lots at Chery are empty (only bicycles), that's why we started the discussion about this subject. Chery workers don't own cars, even the director of Chery's own design department told us that he couldn't afford a car.
Laofan,

Yes, Chery is a young company and it is still trying to survive in Chinese market although it is sucessful now to some degree. They do not have a good profit now and they need invest a great deal of money to further develop. You heard that Chery is planning to be listed ? Surely that is for money.

If you look at the employees (even shop level workers) in Shanghai-VW and Shang-GM, you will find something different. Most of them have their own cars. But I think both of them became sucessful because of low competition in last two decades.

Chinese demastice brands will be becoming stronger and stronger because of low cost and fast response to the market. Car manufactruing is not so sophisticed indeed. As long as you have a good apperance (you can buy from, e.g., Italy), good components (you can buy easily, e.g. from Bosch, Delphi) and a good quality control, you will be sucessful.
 

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Wuji said:
Laofan,

Yes, Chery is a young company and it is still trying to survive in Chinese market although it is sucessful now to some degree. They do not have a good profit now and they need invest a great deal of money to further develop. You heard that Chery is planning to be listed ? Surely that is for money.

If you look at the employees (even shop level workers) in Shanghai-VW and Shang-GM, you will find something different. Most of them have their own cars. But I think both of them became sucessful because of low competition in last two decades.

Chinese demastice brands will be becoming stronger and stronger because of low cost and fast response to the market. Car manufactruing is not so sophisticed indeed. As long as you have a good apperance (you can buy from, e.g., Italy), good components (you can buy easily, e.g. from Bosch, Delphi) and a good quality control, you will be sucessful.
People who work at SAIC-GM and SAIC-volkswagen drive Chery's and Geely's.
 

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hazik said:
People who work at SAIC-GM and SAIC-volkswagen drive Chery's and Geely's.
i doubt that. the saic employees get discounts on saic cars so that's what they drive. go to the parking lot of any of these companies, you can see it.

do not think that saic wages are the norm in china. this is one of the things that is hitting saic and it's parts companies (like some delphi JV's).

if rural china e.g. anhui salary is x
shanghai is 2x
saic is 4x

roughly speaking....
 

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asdfzxcv said:
Serious question... let's think about it.

I'd venture to say that most of the folks on chinese car assembly line don't drive a car. So how can people who don't usually drive make a good car?

You really have to be passionate about cars to know how to make a good car!!!

It isn't a coincidence that daewoo and hyundai are bad cars just like those coming chinese cars. Don't think I am right? Go drive a lexus is 300 and immediately drive a BMW 330 you'll noticed the difference like night n' day. German cars and autobahn cultures go hand in hand... without one there is no other.

Come on, you know I am right... don't indulge yourself in self denial.

It's an interesting point. as hater says, it's not the assembly people but the engineers. I sent a whole bunch of my guys out to learn to drive because I thought it was important, and I imagine the OE makers do the same.

On the other hand, I think you can probably learn all there is to know about the virtues of all different types of car without driving them, just by reading it on the internet, eh lads?

Gotta go now, got my Esprit outside............whhaaaaarrrrrrrrrrpppppppp
 

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asdfzxcv said:
Making a car involves more than just assembly, and design and engineering process are first and formost!

And creating a car without passion would end up with efforts like lexus (competently assembled but no fun) at best and daewoo, hyundai, name your chinese cars here at worst.
You asked about people BUILDING cars (assembly workers) and then you changed it to design and engineering people. Putting a vehicle together takes absolutely no knowledge of how the product will work in the real world...all it takes is the ability to follow directions.

Engineering a vehicle or designing it takes more knowledge, and can you say that the people engineering or designing Chinese vehicles have no experience driving vehicles?

As for the Lexus design...they are perhaps the best vehicles ever built. Some of them may be boring to drive, but that's not their purpose. The Lexus LS and ES are comfort vehicles and aren't meant to appeal to people who enjoy spirited driving. There's a HUGE market for people who use a car as transportation...I'd venture to guess that more than half (probably more than 75%) of Americans...and probably LARGER numbers in many other countries...think of a car as transportation and that's it. It's not about great driving dynamics...it's about getting from here to there.

Lexus vehicles do that and very well. They are, without question, quiet and comfortable to drive. They have the highest build quality. They are not sports cars...nor were they designed to be.
 
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