[Vladimir-S]

Introducing: Tianma!
There is 1 new truck from chinese manufacture is selling in Russia. It called Tianma Century (FengLing). It has Mitsibishi 2.4L 140 hp gasolone engine (the same as Great Wall Motors "Hover" car) and diesel Isuzu 2.8L 95 hp engine. It's "copy" of Isuzu DMax of 2002 year.
In Russia it costs 18000$ (with 2.4L engine) and 19000$ (with Isuzu 2.8L diesel). Of course they are 4x4.
Here some photos:

Of couse it's new competitor to popular chinese Great Wall Motors (GWM) pickups. So:
+diesel engine (GWM doesn't import diesel to Russia)
+140 hp engine (GWM pickups have 105 hp)
+more space for 3-5 passengers
+a bit more options in default (CD instead of old cassete player in GWM,...)
-price (GWM is 1000-2000$ lower)
-absence of truck cover (GWM have it in default. It costs 600$ for GWM and 1500-2500$ for other cars)
-unknown manufacturer (maybe Tianma is as bad as Xinkai?)
-not many spare parts
+-design (different for peoples' taste. GWM trucks are copy of Toyotas. Tianma is copy of Isuzu DMax)

Here additional links!
http://www.globalautoindex.com/model.plt?no=3756&ass=

 

[Admin]

i wonder why tianma decided to enter russia market with just 1 model?

should it come ready with 3-4 models

 

[Raul]

Good work Vladimir! I was just about to introduce this make myself

Here is more information about the make:

Tianma website: http://www.tianmaauto.com

Baoding Tianma has a vast model line-up, including pick-up's, SUV's and vans. Several of the models are copies like Hilux, Hiace, CR-V, D-Max or RAV4. One interesting new model is a straight copy of Kia Sorrento You can see it in the main page of Tianma's website, in the upper banner.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

FACTS:


- founded in 1987

- in 1994 company name changed to "Baoding Tianma Automotive Plant"

- in 2002 company name changed to "Baoding Tianma Automobile Company
Ltd."

- production in 2003: 8771 cars

- production in 2004: 10 000 cars

- workforce: over 1000 employees

- capacity: 15 000 cars / year

- factory area: 30 000 m2 (located in Baoding, in Hebei Province)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

MODELS:


Pick-up:

- Cheng Long (2003- )
- Feng Ling KZ1021S
- Hilux KZ1020SE, KZ1020SC
- Yu Hu KZ1021SLE, KZ1021 SLC (2000- )

SUV:

- Feng Chi KZ6490
- Feng Rui KZ6485E (2003- )
- SRV (2004- ) CR-V copy
- CUV Jun Chi KZ6480E, KZ6480C (RAV4 -copy)
- Kia Sorrento -copy

Van:

- Hai Shi (Hiace) KZ6490, KZ5020, KZ6530

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PICTURES:

Feng Rui KZ6485E

CUV Jun Chi KZ6480E


More info to follow later...

 

[Raul]

Feng Chi KZ6490

Yu Hu / Cheng Long KZ1021SLC, KZ1021SLE

Hai Shi KZ6530B

 

[Vladimir-S]

Thanks for more info, Raul!
There are already 2 owners of Tianma pickups in our russian forums. There were many discussions buy/not buy Tianma. But after they bought this car - both of them dissappered from forum We even don't know what to think. Usually if everything' OK people don't bother write posts in forum. And if they have problems they write about them.

We have only 1 model of this car in Moscow. And it's presented only it one car-shop. Importer is the same as ZX Auto! There are problems with that ZX auto - rare spare parts! Of course it's not manufacturer's problem, but importer.

Now I see how many car models Tianma is making. Why didn't they import all of them? Another important detail - Tianma is fully certificated in Russia, GWM - too, Xinkai - not.

 

[Raul]

Now I see how many car models Tianma is making. Why didn't they import all of them? Another important detail - Tianma is fully certificated in Russia, GWM - too, Xinkai - not.

I like Feng Rui model (first picture). It is quite elegant looking and has up-to-date design. D-Max design is nice. Yu Hu /Cheng Long is too old looking (Isuzu TFR -look) , maybe it won't sell well in export markets.

Did you see the Kia Sorrento copy ?? Go to Tianmaauto.com mainpage, it's the white car on the left !

 

[Vladimir-S]

Kia Sorrento's copy looks good! Price is the question. If it will be about 25-28 thousands $ in Russia - it's better to add some more and buy original Kia or GWM Hover.

Actually I don't belive that Tianma will be popular in Russia. There's no advertisment at all, some problems with service, spare parts, etc. (importer is "poor"). GWM is much more popular - some advertisment (massive was in autumn), quite good service, no problems with spare parts, reasonable price, good and now more options in default! (+warm seats, +warm mirrors, ...). Now I see from 1 to 3 GWM trucks or SUVs every day.

 

[AXLE]

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/7892/kiacopy2ht.jpg

Screen shot of the Kia Sorrento copy from the website. By the way does anyone know if this copy is authorised?

 

[erik (laofan) cmvdc]

This KIA Sorento picture, with Tianma badges, is only a drawing. There is no collaboration between KIA and Tianma, so when Tianma is really going to copy the Sorento (which is not impossible) than we can expect some trouble...

 

[Vitesse]

Yet another Isuzu-based design from yet another company...

Companies that continue to focus on this type of vehicle are ultimately doomed, though it may not be apparent right now. There are simply too many manufacturers offering these exact vehicles to sustain a serious market for them once the seller's market in China disappears - and it can't grow forever.

 

[mrgq]

agreed

 

[Raul]

Screen shot of the Kia Sorrento copy from the website. By the way does anyone know if this copy is authorised?

Hey Axle (or should I say "Evolve"), I see you visit AutoWeek forums too :lol:

 

[AXLE]

Yep, I sure do

 

[chinoy54]

not if they continue to improve the quality of their products, maintain a competitive price level & start exporting in a big way. there are third-world countries that are not basket cases where brand-new, cheap pick-ups @ SUV'S are big sellers. where i come from, this market is 20-30,000 units/yr. & growing.

 

[god_bless_japan]

wishful thinking

 

[chinoy54]

hey, god_bless_japan, i wish you would expound a bit more so we would know exactly what you mean by "wishful thinking". these short & rather acerbic comments may be a way for you to up your total posts, but they really don't contribute much to our appreciation of your opinion on the particular subject. you should consider loosening up a little & let us know exactly what you think.

 

[god_bless_japan]

i agree what Vitesse say about over crowding and saturation point. Thing is in Europe at least the Japanese have huge problem with selling cars because although very reliable its not enough, people want more warmth from their motors, hence VW golf a top seller in europe. Quality is not enough is todays cut throat market to survive.

 

[chinoy54]

okay, i see what you mean. but, you're talking about mature markets like the uk, eu, north america, etc. at the moment, chinese auto products don't stand a chance in these markets, given safety & emissions standards. the chinese strive for these markets, it their ultimate goal-a laudable one, but there are other markets w/ch will accept their products, mine for one, south america is another big one, asia excluding japan & korea another, south africa, north africa, maybe australia. these markets can absorb chinese auto products now & in the very near future-never mind if they are copies, they're cheap, they fill a need,where in some cases people can afford only pre-owned 10year old cars discarded from europe, or in the case of south america-from north of the border.

what these companies have to work on are- the reliability of their products, after-sales support, & a more than cursory understanding of the complexities of the global market.

 

[god_bless_japan]

well i hope you are right Chinnoy, but i suspect the saturation problem more emminent. Imagine all these truck produced everyday for months, they need to be exported. China aldready enjoys trade surplus with the major markets, and given cars are luxury and not necessity, other countries govt may/will impose tax on chinese vehicles out of fear more than anything. This overcapacity needs to be looked at by the chinese govt

 

[chinoy54]

hi, raul. do you have any idea how many units they sold in china? they have no less than 4 different models of pick-ups! are they emulating Great Wall? any additional info would be welcome. thanks in advance.