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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
All I could find on the internet are positive remarks and praises. Toyota claimed hybrid is the future but lately a Chief Engineer admits that hybrid is a temporary technology until cleaner engines arrive.

I am sure someone out there knows better than I do.

By the way, oil has dipped below US$60. Strange...
 

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Gas-electric hybrids are a transition technology. The next big step may be fuel cells, which require electric running gear. The electric motor experience gained from producing gas-electric hybrids will help improve the first mass-market generation of fuel cell vehicles...when they arrive.

I don't recall any automaker stating that hybrid vehicles were anything other than a stepping stone to better technology.
 

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Hybrid is real or hype - it all depends on how you look at it.

If you want to save money, forget about it. Hybrids WILL NOT save you money. You can spend half the money of a Hybrid on a basic car that get nearly as good gas mileage. That's the best way to go to save money, besides riding a bicycle.

If you want to save the environment, look else where. Walk and use public transit. If you must have a car, again, go for small, tiny cars. The environmental impact of building a sophisticated Hybrid car and the batteries in them, could be several times higher than a typical small cheap car.

If you just want to save "gas", for the sole purpose of preserving this limited natural resouce, well, don't drive a car. If you must, sure, Hybrid is a good way to go. But I'd take a different route. Drive cars that run on electricity, natural gas, propane, E85, bio-diesel, vegetable oil, etc. etc.

Of course, if you are choosing between a gas hog and a Hybrid in the same price range or higher, definitely take the Hybrid.
 

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I'm planning to buy a Prius. I'm no fan of hybrid and not plan to save money out of it. To me, hybrid is only a side feature of Prius. It has smart key, a high quality color LCD, climate control, backup camera, and many features rarely seen on this price range. It's bigger than normal compact cars and has big leg space. All in all, Prius is the counterpart of iPod in car industry.

The sentiment is, if I buy a new Accord or Camry, they're pretty much like my old car, except they're new. Isn't it boring. But Prius, full of features! Every customer has their own needs. Prius is successful not only because it's hybrid.
 

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OMG you're comparing the iPod to the Prius?!? Prius has a dowdy, nerdy, and tree-hugger image, miles away from the cool and hip iPod. Man, where do you live? San Francisco? (Nothing wrong with SF, I love that city, but that's the only place I can think of that may think the Prius is cool and hip.)

Don't get me wrong, I don't dislike the Prius but I don't really like it either. It does nothing for me. Unless your sole purpose of driving is to use minimal amout of "gas", Prius is really a worthless piece of junk.

Btw, Good luck taking a date out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Hudson said:
The next big step may be fuel cells, which require electric running gear. The electric motor experience gained from producing gas-electric hybrids will help improve the first mass-market generation of fuel cell vehicles...when they arrive.
I suppose the biggest legacy from Toyota's hybrid research would be the advancement of electric motors and batteries technology which could be applied onto fuel cells - which I believe IS the future.
 

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Can hybrids save money? Yes, if you live in a place where gas price hovers above $2.50; then Prius's hybrid technology pays for itself in 10 years. Tough in the US but easily done in Japan and Europe.

Having said that, the reason for Prius's popularity in SoCal(Southern California) is something other than saving gas; driving Prius entitles you to drive through the car pool lane, alone. Now, that's a privilege that people would pay to have, but it comes free with Prius.
 

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principle behind the hybrid is that the petrol engine efficiency drops as you throttle it back (because effective comp ratio is reduced as you are not allowing the cylinder to fill). by introducing the hybrid system you reduce the amount of part load operation, either by making it work harder (driving plus charging the battery) or not at all (stopped and the battery driving the car).

if you do a lot of city driving it will save fuel. if you spend most of the time running at pace it won't.

whether you save money considering the amount of extra cost is debatable, ditto the environmental issue. but with volume and experience, the cost will come down and the benefits go up, so there is an argument for supporting the technology. a bit like nuclear power - not as good as they said it would be so far, but has the potential if we stick with it and keep developing it.

i think the prius is kind of cool.

i've just got back from china where i lived 'under a rock' for 8 years. carbon dioxide issue seems bigger than I thought, I'm thinking about this. of course my carbon footprint has more to do with the amount of flying i do for work than the amount of driving i do......
 

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Real_I_Hate_China said:
Can hybrids save money? Yes, if you live in a place where gas price hovers above $2.50; then Prius's hybrid technology pays for itself in 10 years. Tough in the US but easily done in Japan and Europe.

Having said that, the reason for Prius's popularity in SoCal(Southern California) is something other than saving gas; driving Prius entitles you to drive through the car pool lane, alone. Now, that's a privilege that people would pay to have, but it comes free with Prius.
No, you can't save money. To replace a dead battery will cost you $4,000.

Even if the battery last forever, I still don't see how I can't save more money by buying a small car, like the Aveo or Fit, even a base Civic or Corolla.
 

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BringIt said:
No, you can't save money. To replace a dead battery will cost you $4,000.

Even if the battery last forever, I still don't see how I can't save more money by buying a small car, like the Aveo or Fit, even a base Civic or Corolla.
The batteries will last quite some time.

And the Prius is far larger than the Aveo, Fit, Civic, or Corolla. In the US, the interior space makes the Prius a mid-sized car...like the Camry or Accord. When you compare it to those cars for value, the Prius isn't that expensive.

And saving money isn't the only reason to buy a Prius. How about just using less fuel? How about polluting less?
 

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Read my first post of this topic...

To me, people who drive the Prius and claim they are doing something great to the environment is laughable. If one is REALLY that concerned about the environment, don't drive. Walk, take a bus, ride a bike, car pool. Convert a car to run on used french fry oil. Drive a small car.

Again, I don't hate the Prius. People should buy the Prius if they had a gas hog in mind. It's just not the answer to all questions, not even close.
 

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No, you can't save money. To replace a dead battery will cost you $4,000.

Even if the battery last forever, I still don't see how I can't save more money by buying a small car, like the Aveo or Fit, even a base Civic or Corolla.
You cannot drive through SoCal's car-pool lane with an Aveo or Fit...
 

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i think hybrid is kinda stupid, the future is going fuel cell anyways. remeber when zip disc first came out? Now everone is using cd's.
 

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gr8 said:
i think hybrid is kinda stupid, the future is going fuel cell anyways. remeber when zip disc first came out? Now everone is using cd's.
Here's the difference. A zip disc and CD have very little technology in common, but a fuel cell vehicle and a hybrid vehicle both use electric motors. Advances in electric motor (and battery) technology that comes from hybrid vehicles can transfer to fuel cell vehicles. If and when the market converts to fuel cell vehicles, hybrids will provide the advancements necessary to make them better.
 

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Here in Coventry, the price for petrol (95) is 83.9p/L, not that expensive. So, I don't see hybrid car can stand a chance driving people to buy it. By the way, more complicated system comes with bigger chances to have problem. Just think about the costs of maintaining/repairing of hybrid vehicle in the future. You won't save money at the end of the day. Also, according to the driving style of british people, I don't think they will like the performance of hybrid vehicle. All in all, not support hybrid.
 

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Hudson said:
Gas-electric hybrids are a transition technology. The next big step may be fuel cells, which require electric running gear. The electric motor experience gained from producing gas-electric hybrids will help improve the first mass-market generation of fuel cell vehicles...when they arrive.

I don't recall any automaker stating that hybrid vehicles were anything other than a stepping stone to better technology.
Completely, 100% correct, with the exception of the word "may be". Because the next step WILL be fuel cells.
 

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I'm certain fuel cell will be PART of the solution for the future, not the only solution.

It will be mission impossible to replace all gas stations of the world with hydrogen filling stations to power fuel cell vehicle, amongst many other problems with no solutions.

Besides, hydrogen has to come from somewhere, and currently the best solution is to derive from natural gas, yet another limited natural resource. Electrolysis? Not energy efficient enough to be justified.

I see the future filled with an assortment of fuels. Synthetic oil, gas, bio-diesel, ethanol, etc. etc. with vehicles capable of using several of the fuels. That's where we're headed.

In the mean time, everyone should use as little fuel/electricity (of any kind) as possible. It would give researchers more time to find the alternatives and give mother nature a desperately needed break.
 

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WuzhengNA said:
Completely, 100% correct, with the exception of the word "may be". Because the next step WILL be fuel cells.
"May be" remains in my vision of the next step in powertrains because of the cost of hydrogen. If/when the cost of hydrogen can be reduced to a reasonable level and the vehicles running on it meet targets, then it will be the next step. But these are huge obsticles to overcome. It's not a certainty yet.
 
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