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im just saying that the definition of luxury is not that difficult to understand.
Definition of luxury is a combination of nice interior, brand prestige, and driving performance(FWD not welcome).

This is why VW was so eager to buy Bentley. VW Phaeton failed with a nice interior and good performance, because VW wasn't a luxury brand. At the same time, Phaeton's brother ContinentialGT and Sedan are flying out of dealerships. Why? Because of brand.
 

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DOS said:





The crossover's interior might have the luxury items and plastics seen in the TL interior, but it lacks shape and form, not to mention that it has too many textures and colors placed in an unorganized fashion. Interiors in luxury cars have to have grace and form, and the crossover's interior clearly lacks these aspects.
The Crossover's interior does not have luxury items. It does not have dual-zone automatic climate control, a gated shifter, blackout LED gaugues, nor an integrated navigation system. It's a NICE interior, but it's not a luxury interior. And yes, you're right, it does lack those aspects.
 

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Real_I_Hate_China said:
Definition of luxury is a combination of nice interior, brand prestige, and driving performance (FWD not welcome).
Do you honestly think Visionary Vehicles is trying to sell Chery's as a luxury brand? It's a marketing move to attract investors and to raise interest in there product. When Visionary Vehicles clams they are going to redefine the price of luxury, they actually mean that they would mimic the Volkswagen marketing strategy buy putting the performance and comfort features found in luxury vehicles into a cheaper car in order to create incentive to buy there product. If this strategy actually works, Visionary Vehicles can use the same vehicles to target both segments.

Real_I_Hate_China said:
I actually like New Crossover's interior. But that's about it. I wouldn't take it even if Chery gave one for free to silence my mouth, because I am afraid of a massive towing and repair bills mounting.
Can that car actually be classified as a crossover? It looks more like a mid sized station wagon. Don't worry, if Chery wants to be taken series in the U.S. or Malcolm wants to be remembered as a credible person, then it will have absolutely no problems for at least fifteen years, 150,000 miles and have a warranty to back it up. Personally, I liked the interior at first, but I got sick of it real fast. The way I see it there are only two ways Chinese cars can enter the developing market, either produce a car that beats Korean cars in every aspect and slowly crawl up the ladder, or produce a vehicle that shocks the world and receives the praise of every respected automotive journalist. This is not an option, it is do or die, they can either produce a vehicle that can meet these standards, giving them some hope of surviving, or they produce a peace of junk and fail miserably. For either option to succeed, the vehicle must be tested, praised, and compared to its competition, by every respected automotive journalist, in order to generate publicly well before its introduction into a market.

RCtennis3811 said:
The Crossover's interior does not have luxury items. It does not have dual-zone automatic climate control, a gated shifter, blackout LED gauges, nor an integrated navigation system. It's a NICE interior, but it's not a luxury interior. And yes, you're right, it does lack those aspects.
Here is a more recent photo of the crossover’s interior:


Those features can easily be added but the interior is harder to restyle. Besides, in reality luxury is not defined by the features found in the product, but rather the style and form of the product. For example if you put an 80's Mercedes, with only leather, climate control, automatic windows, and cruise control next to a modern fully loaded Accord, the Mercedes will still be the luxury vehicle, while the Honda is not. Better yet if you have an identically equipped TL and an Accord, or a MDX and a Pilot, equipped with the same functions, the Acura would still be considered luxurious while the Honda is not. This interior could easily be improved by simply moving the gauge cluster from above the center council to in front of the driver, replacing the fake wood trim, and scraping some of the cheap plastic. Get rid of the silver plastic on the gear shift, get rid of the plastic on the steering wheel, and attempt to mimic the interior styling of vehicles like the Acura's, last generation Audi's, and the Mercedes that are being replaced.
 

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Real_I_Hate_China said:
I actually like New Crossover's interior. But that's about it. I wouldn't take it even if Chery gave one for free to silence my mouth, because I am afraid of a massive towing and repair bills mounting.
You don't have to worry about that, because no one gives a shit about what you say in the first place.
 

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Do you honestly think Visionary Vehicles is trying to sell Chery's as a luxury brand?
Yes.

When Visionary Vehicles clams they are going to redefine the price of luxury, they actually meant that they would mimic the Volkswagen marketing strategy and put the performance and comfort features found in luxury vehicles in order to create incentive to buy there product.
And look at how VW is doing. No one considers VW a luxury brand anyway.

Malcolm wants to be remembered as a credible person
So we have a problem here.

then it will have absolutely no problems for at least fifteen years, 150,000 miles and have a warranty to back it up.
The longest ACTECO engine was tested is 200,000 km(125K miles).

either produce a car that beats Korean cars in every aspect and slowly crawl up the ladder
So this is not an option.

or produce a vehicle that shocks the world and receives the praise of every respected automotive journalist.
This also is not an option.
 

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Well..................

China hater, I think it is safe to say that you would NEVER get hired to do public relations or promotion for ANY chinese auto company.............HOWEVER, I think it is ALSO safe to say that ANY and ALL chinese auto companies would LOVE to hire you as a CRASH TEST DUMMY!! I REALLY hope that people from any of the chinese auto companies read this forum..........and I hope that the ENDLESS GARBAGE that comes out of your mouth gives them the motivation to prove you wrong!!! :cursing:
 

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I have nothing against Real_I_Hate_China, but he'd only be a crash test dummy if the Chinese auto manufacturers actually think about passenger safety! Last time I checked, they haven't "heard" of the side thorax airbag...
 

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The automotive culture has to mature to a certain level before people consider such things as passenger safety and comfort. Frankly, the Chinese market has not reached that step. Besides, broken bones and internal bleeding are better at showing the effects of a crash than any accelerometer, allowing Chinese automotive companies to develop safety systems that won’t leave as many bruises and decrease air bag inflicted wounds. Furthermore if they want Real_I_Hate_China as a crash test dummy he won’t have a choice.

Has anyone actually seen the final products that Visionary Vehicles is trying to import? (Besides the M14 convertible the Crossover, and the S12) If so, does anyone have any pictures?

Real_I_Hate_China said:
A 10yr/100K mile power train warranty on an engine with a design life span of a 125K mile is a financial disaster
Where did you get this information that the Acteco engines only have a design lifespan of 125K miles? Could you show us the link?
 

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Real_I_Hate_China said:
The longest ACTECO engine was tested is 200,000 km(125K miles).
The chery engine validation program was defined by AVL, it is comparable duration to what any Western manufacturer would use. Most of the engine validation is on a dynamometer in which we talk about hours not miles. You being very chassis focused might not know this.

The dyno load cycles tend to be very heavy. A typical load cycle might include 10 minutes on full speed/load interspersed with 2 minutes idling then back to 10 mins full load again. This really sorts out the men from the boys and although the equivalent mileage when you work it out doesnt sound that high, it is a real test of engine durability.

Other tests include thermal shock tests where you alternate putting very hot then very cold water through the cooling system, which is mainly a test of head gasket durability, or a test where you go from full load to cutting the engine power but motoring it at full throttle using the dyno motor, then back on again, which exposes the exhaust manifold to severe thermal cycles to check it for cracking.

Road testing is also useful, as it can find some other faults not found on the dyno.

In road driving, there aren't many opportunities to run full load and speed for 10 minutes unless it's a very small/ slow car or you are truly mental. If you want to see something close, come with me on a ride to Nanjing and back.
 

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it is comparable duration to what any Western manufacturer would use.
Toyota and Hyundai engines have a design life span of 200,000 miles(320,000 km). A 10yr/100K mile power train warranty on an engine with a design life span of a 125K mile is a financial disaster.
 

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Real_I_Hate_China said:
Toyota and Hyundai engines have a design life span of 200,000 miles(320,000 km). A 10yr/100K mile power train warranty on an engine with a design life span of a 125K mile is a financial disaster.
Who said it has a design life span of 125k miles?

The only reference to 125k miles was in the middle of your own post.

I just gave you the first hand information about engine validation. No need for you going back to your own unsubstantiated comments for reference purposes.

I would say that you are letting your nationalistic anger get the better of you, I have noted several quick and fiesty replies from you recently, sometimes even irrelevant. In some cases you aren't even properly reading the posts you are debating, let alone doing the proper research to answer them.

This isn't the quality of argument that I have come to expect from you, try to regain your focus.
 

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Just because it was only tested up to 125K miles doesnt necessarily mean that this figure is its intented lifespan.
 

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It may have appeared from my post that I was confirming the 125k miles, which I was not. I have no idea how many road test miles were conducted. I know something of the dyno tests done, and as I said these are equivalent to what a Western manufacturer uses. You cannot directly convert dyno hours to road miles though, because the load cycles are different.

The point is, that the engine is designed, tested and manufactured to the same durability standard as a western manufacturer uses. Nobody needs to listen to the chassises expert when it comes to engines.
 

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Regard to AVL

Hmm.... I know it's off topic but I'm just curious......

Does any one know the actual engine developed from AVL and produced in a manufacture? I tried to find out, but what I got was AVL was primarily focused on the diesel engine of truck. It seems like they are well recognize high tech company, but I can not found any info if they developed an engine for any other companies.

Just curious.....coz hyundai was also so desperate to have own engine in the past and took a long time to have own from outsourced the mits engine. And still the engine bigger than 3.8 lt (lamda) is being outsourced from mits as well. My point is if AVL can produce such a decent engine, why Hyundai or proton, who was desperate at own engine, wouldn't try it from AVL?

-ps the interior looks nice:) but not sure if it's good enough to be a luxury car. Coz haven't driven any luxury car~~ :D And if the price is around $20,000, are they going to compete against Camry and Accord like sonata NF? I think sonata NF's price is around $20,000 in US and I can see many forums comparing this car against those 2 models (mostly price aspect and its standard features :D ). If it's true, it's going to be tough as there are seems like a lot of Camcord lovers....;)
 

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Does any one know the actual engine developed from AVL and produced in a manufacture?
AVL mostly worked on euro-market diesel engines until the Chery contract. And AVL's inexperience in gas engine shows, as AVL's Chery engines are underpowered.

My point is if AVL can produce such a decent engine, why Hyundai or proton, who was desperate at own engine, wouldn't try it from AVL?
Like you said, AVL was known for diesel engines, not gas engines. Chery took a certain risk by contracting with AVL for a series of gas engines.
 

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Visionary Vehicles.

Does VV intend to imporant any/all/none of the vehicles featured on the folowing website into the U.S.?

chery-vertex.com.sg/showroom_retractable.php
 

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the "at least" sounds bad

I agree and what's more, Mr. Bricklin may be surprised at how hard it is to pry those Toyota and Honda keys out of the hands of so many Chinese Americans.
 
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