[mgrovernut]

It's been interesting to see how the whole MG Rover story has unfolded. It now looks as if SAIC will sell the Rover 75 in the UK (badged Rover) and as if Nanjing will sell the MG ZT.

However if the first battle is a battle for "hearts and minds" then Nanjing is thrashing SAIC in the UK at the moment. Many loyal MG/Rover owners are saying on fan forums that they will opt for the Nanjing model over the SAIC model because Nanjing is respecting MG's heritage by making the TF in the UK. Whilst this may only be a "token" gesture by Nanjing, it's interesting to note how SAIC has completley lost the PR battle in the UK. Rover is a brand which older people tend to buy. For many in this age group place of manufacture is important. SAIC should consider carefully how all this is unfolding because whilst it's smaller Chinese rival wins friends, SAIC is making enemies.

I for one will never buy a Rover unless one model is made in the UK. But I will consider an MG. Nanjing you have my vote!

 

[Real_I_Hate_China]

Nanjing is respecting MG's heritage by making the TF in the UK.

How many TF roadsters? a couple thousands per year?

 

[Andy]

How many TF roadsters? a couple thousands per year?

15000 TF initially.

 

[Deanodriver]

I wonder how they'll compare to the 'classic' models? I do think that it would be wise for Nanjing to change the design slightly, try and differentiate it from the old models.

Either way, I'm looking forward to see how it works out.

 

[Real_I_Hate_China]

15000 TF initially.

There is no market for 15K TF roadsters/year.

What you are realistically looking at is a small-scale production of a couple thousands per year as a token gesture, then flood the Euro market with Chinese made vehicles.

Much the same way BMW and VW kept the interior and finish of Rolls and Bentley in the UK, even though all major mechanical components are shipped from Germany.

 

[Andy]

There is no market for 15K TF roadsters/year.

What you are realistically looking at is a small-scale production of a couple thousands per year as a token gesture, then flood the Euro market with Chinese made vehicles.

Much the same way BMW and VW kept the interior and finish of Rolls and Bentley in the UK, even though all major mechanical components are shipped from Germany.

Well, there was a market for 15K TF per year, that was before MGR went down. It will be a hard job selling as many TF as MGR did, it really needs a brilliant American entry to succeed, I believe.

 

[Real_I_Hate_China]

Well, there was a market for 15K TF per year, that was before MGR went down.

MG Rover's annual sales was 100K before going bankrupt.

You are telling me 1/7th of all outputs were TF roadsters????

 

[Andy]

MG Rover's annual sales was 100K before going bankrupt.

You are telling me 1/7th of all outputs were TF roadsters????

Pretty much so, yeah.

 

[proximal]

In 2004, MG Rover sold 10,017 TF roadsters and 135,236 cars total in Europe. http://www.austin-rover.co.uk/index.htm?sales2004f.htm A sales forecast of 15,000 isn't too bad, since it would be sold in more markets than before.

 

[Real_I_Hate_China]

In 2004, MG Rover sold 10,017 TF roadsters

Your source please??? It's not in the provided link.

You are confusing TF roadster(aka convertable) with TF Coupe. Convertables always sell in fraction of hardtop coupes. We are looking at an annual sales of a couple thousand convertables produced at LongBridge at maximum, as all TF Coupes are supposed to be produced in the US.

 

[proximal]

Your source please??? It's not in the provided link.

You are confusing TF roadster(aka convertable) with TF Coupe. Convertables always sell in fraction of hardtop coupes. We are looking at an annual sales of a couple thousand convertables produced at LongBridge at maximum, as all TF Coupes are supposed to be produced in the US.

Yes it is there. Scroll down. It actually says 10,645 TF's and 113,661 sales total; I was looking at the 2003 figures when I wrote the above. And those are all convertibles, since there is no coupe (aside from the MG GT, which was a concept).

 

[Tracy-CAE]

Nanjing Auto

Is Nabgjing Auto sell well?

 

[archedestral]

Nanjing Vs SAIC - Another British View.

It's been interesting to see how the whole MG Rover story has unfolded. It now looks as if SAIC will sell the Rover 75 in the UK (badged Rover) and as if Nanjing will sell the MG ZT.

However if the first battle is a battle for "hearts and minds" then Nanjing is thrashing SAIC in the UK at the moment. Many loyal MG/Rover owners are saying on fan forums that they will opt for the Nanjing model over the SAIC model because Nanjing is respecting MG's heritage by making the TF in the UK.

It’s a close run thing, however at the moment, the biggest employer of ex Rover staff (indirectly) is SAIC through its development project of the 75 with Ricardo.

We in Britain are going to have to get used to less and less being built here. The UK average manufacturing wage rate is $24.71 compared to $0.61 in China. We can't escape globalisation and the effects that it will have on industry; China and other lower wage countries will become increasingly the mainstays of manufacturing.

Personally, I would rather back the company that puts large investment into British R&D than small-scale kit assembly of cars. R&D in this country is where the sustainability of manufacturing lies. The British cannot compete in terms of cost any more, we have to concentrate on added value sectors such as R&D. If Nanjing put their R&D over here as well then I'd say that Nanjing have a good case to win in this country. However, in a press release in June, they said they were putting R&D in America........we'll have to wait and see!!

Great forum by the way - China to me is the most exciting and vibrant automotive sector in the world at the moment, even if most of the cars are a bit on the drab side - they won't stay like that for long......:thumb:

 

[MartinW]

In the sports car industry, rag-tops usually outsell the hardtops by a significant number. If you look at sales of the MGB, the Roadster outsold the BGT by something like 4:1, as was the case with the Jaguar E-type, and even more recently with the BMW Z3.

Cabrio's never sell as well as saloons, but then cabrio's are not sports cars so you cannot look at the likes of the Golf, Audi, M3 etc as a guide since cabrios lack the structural rigidity of their saloon equivalent.

Certainly that is blurred now because many cabrios have folding metal roofs and it can't be too long before that finds it way down to the sports car (2-seater) market offering the best of both open and closed for year round motoring, unlike the current policy of using a separate hardtop in Winter.

As to the TF coupe it was only ever a concept and although the KV6 unit was discussed, the concept had the K4 unit. The engine bay access is via a panel behind teh seats and on an open top car that is easy enough, but the major flaw with teh TF coupe was providing that ease of access. Therefore, any talk of TF coupes is likely to end up being a long term redesign unless MG Rover had been so far ahead that the work is already done.

The 75 Coupe and the TF Coupe were rolled out in late 2004 and it would seem that much of the reason for these sudden concepts was to showcase their skills to SAIC at a time when they were desperate to get the deal signed.

In fact I would say that Nanjing would have more success selling a ZT coupe here in the UK as I think the 75 coupe concept was much received much better than the TF, and it would offer a Gran Tourer MG with performance and handling that would be a strong hit! I'd certainly want one in preference to a TF or TF coupe.

 

[Andy]

Your source please??? It's not in the provided link.

You are confusing TF roadster(aka convertable) with TF Coupe. Convertables always sell in fraction of hardtop coupes. We are looking at an annual sales of a couple thousand convertables produced at LongBridge at maximum, as all TF Coupes are supposed to be produced in the US.

Historically, MG sold far more convertible than hardtop coupes. In fact, MG is most famous for its convertibles: MGA, MGB and MGC.

 

[Real_I_Hate_China]

OK, I admit my mistake on this one. MG TF started out as a convertable.

I was thinking in US terms....

 

[Puppetland]

Certainly that is blurred now because many cabrios have folding metal roofs and it can't be too long before that finds it way down to the sports car (2-seater) market offering the best of both open and closed for year round motoring

Mazda is already there with their excellent folding hard top MX5.

The market for the Chinese MG TF in the UK is open to question. Unless it is as cheap as chips, it will struggle to sell.

 

[KING_OF_HILL]

Mazda is already there with their excellent folding hard top MX5.

The market for the Chinese MG TF in the UK is open to question. Unless it is as cheap as chips, it will struggle to sell.

10~20% price gap will be way more than enough to lure price sensitive britons to MG . Hyndai didn't start in England by selling chips, do some study and see how they started.

MG is a known brand in UK and most of britons probably wont notice the change of ownership, how many britons on the street know Mazada is owned by Ford???

 

[fightingtorque]

OK, I admit my mistake on this one. MG TF started out as a convertable.

I was thinking in US terms....

Thanks for admitting to it. I think you meant BS terms by the way?

 

[AXLE]

LOL!, Love to rub it in don't you Fightingtorque?