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Real_I_hate_china. Keep up the good work! Let's not let cheap chinese labor take away our auto jobs like the japanese and korean did.
 

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and another one from hater

As ever.

The report mentioned comes from Michael Dunne's ARA company, it's a subscription service. He gives a realistic view of the challenges, however if you were to sit Hater down with him and let them discuss, you would not find that the two of them share the same stance. He is of the view that ultimately these chinese companies have a lot of potential. I have seen him speak, and have spoken with people from his company.

Obviously if anybody gives a balanced view, it is easy for someone with an axe to grind to quote only parts of their report and put a different angle on it with a bold title.
 

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Don't you worry, Chinese cars will take sales away from other Asian imports, not "domestics" (if there is such a thing as domestics anymore).

Think about it, the "domestic" buyers would not consider Japanese or Korean cars now, why would they consider Chinese cars all of a sudden?

Curiously, many "domestic" buyers have no trouble buying European imports, but not Asian imports - hypocrisy? racism? bigotry? :confused: :nono:
 

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What I take away from this article is that the Chinese car makers are more shrewd and caution than the Japanese and Koreans. I fail to see any negatives.

Instead of flooding the US market with crappy products, they want to wait till they have high quality, well designed products. I think it's great that they have the foresight, vision, and ambition to make this kind of great decisions.

For those against Chinese cars, you SHOULD be advising them to come to the US NOW, so they can fail miserably and lose tons of money.
 

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I think the Chinese car companies who wait are definitely playing a smarter strategy, definitely better than the Koreans. Remember the first Hyundais to come to the US in 1985? They were total pieces of junk. It has taken Hyundai 20 years to turn around their image.

The Chinese companies are definitely playing smarter. That will pay off in the end.
 

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The report is right. As of right now the Chinese aren't in a position to sell Chinese made and designed cars in Europe or America. However if you look at both SAIC and Nanjing then it's fairly obvious that both companies are getting close. SAIC own Ssanyong which is already sucessfully selling Korean made cars in Europe and the USA. In addion SAIC have just bought a Ricardo design and engineering company in the UK comprising of over 50% former Rover staff. Do you think these highly skilled car designers and engineers are sitting on their bums? Or are they in fact desiging SAIC cars for production in China. Hmmm dificult......Once you put cheap Chinese Labour, Ssangyong and Western R&D design skills together only a complete fool would think that they would have difficulty designing cars that could sell in the west.

As for Nanjing they are paying ARUP, which is one of the biggest engineering companies in the world to design and engineer all future MG's. They are already working on Euro IV compliant engine technology and some of the most modern Robotics equipment in the world courtesy of MG Rover group. Do you really think that ARUP can't design cars that will sell in the west? Because if you do then explain how they have succesfully designed cars for other major car makers in the past...

Nanjing (one of the smallest car makers in China) plan to re-enter the UK and European car market early next year. So from early next year China willl be exporting to Europe....so your arguement holds no water at all. It's a joke...
 

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Nanjing would say that they have already entered the EU market as they are currently exporting auto parts to supply existing MG-Rover owners - a large and profitable business and one they seem to be having no problems competing in.
 

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asdfzxcv said:
Real_I_hate_china. Keep up the good work! Let's not let cheap chinese labor take away our auto jobs like the japanese and korean did.
not sure you'll find sympathy there mate, he's of korean origin and drives a toyota. he isn't pro US auto workers he just hates the chinese.
 

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asdfzxcv said:
Real_I_hate_china. Keep up the good work! Let's not let cheap chinese labor take away our auto jobs like the japanese and korean did.
i think it would provide more jobs as the domestic decline in jobs. just like how ford and gm are firing people and on the other hand toyota is hiring.
 

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asdfzxcv said:
Real_I_hate_china. Keep up the good work! Let's not let cheap chinese labor take away our auto jobs like the japanese and korean did.
You mean like the thousands of people Toyota has hired in Texas, West Virginia, California, Indiana, and Kentucky? Like the thousands of people Nissan has hired in Tennessee and Mississippi? Like the thousands of people Honda has hired in Ohio and Alabama? Like the thousands of people Subaru has hired in Indiana and Mitsubishi has hired (under UAW contracts) in Illinois? Like the thousands of people Hyundai has hired in Alabama? Like the thousands more people Kia plans on hiring in Georgia? Not to mention the thousands of Canadians and Mexicans hired as well.

And all of those Koreans supplying cars to GM....Chinese people suppling parts to GM?
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
The US politicians are not going to just watch and let their domestic industry get killed in the hands of foreigners. The only politically correct way of selling foreign vehicles in the US right now is via transplants(assembled in USA) or via FTA(Which China has no hope of signing with the US or EU).

The political tolerance limit is about 1 million vehicles per year from any one specific country. Germans export well below this number so they are safe from an auto trade dispute with the US, Japanese exceed this number so they assemble the majority of their cars in the US, and Koreans are approaching 1 million/year right now, so they are trying to overcome this issue via US transplants and an FTA.

Since the tolerated limit is 1 million vehicles from all Chinese brands(SAIC, Nanjing, Chery, Geely, Great Wall, Landwind, Brilliance and any other vender I forgot to mention), the slice of pie for each Chinese brand is rather small, unless they go transplanting.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Who's to say they won't? (Transplant) Isn't MG already doing that?
Only a few thousand coupes only, that is that plant deal actually goes through. The rest of product will be shipped from China.

Having US transplants wipes out whatever the wage cost advantage that Chinese venders might have had, so it is not desirable at this stage. Transplants becomes viable only when the plant operater could extract a productivity of at least 100 cars/manyear, preferably 150.

GM USA is operating at 35 cars/manyear, and this is what got GM into trouble.
 

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If Nanjing and SAIC get close to selling a million cars in the USA then they will be sucessfull and just like Hyundai will open a car factory in the USA. Doh....

Btw I_realy_hate_china should check out the new SAIC 'Rover 75'. It may suffer in Europe from having the worst brand name 'Rong Wei' (wrong way) in history but it looks the part. I'm sure the US will buy them...
 

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mgrovernut said:
If Nanjing and SAIC get close to selling a million cars in the USA then they will be sucessfull and just like Hyundai will open a car factory in the USA. Doh....
A million units? In what time period? A year? Ten years?

Nanjing has already announced that they're planning a factory in Oklahoma starting in 2008 (giggle).
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
1 million cars/year for all of Chinese assembled cars combined. That's like 155K vehicles/year each from China's aspiring 6 exporters. That slice goes down even further should Dodge Hornet is included in that number.

Trade policy makers look at the country of orgin when deciding on trading issues like these, not brands.
 

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Real_I_Hate_China said:
...The political tolerance limit is about 1 million vehicles per year from any one specific country. Germans export well below this number so they are safe from an auto trade dispute with the US, Japanese exceed this number so they assemble the majority of their cars in the US, and Koreans are approaching 1 million/year right now, so they are trying to overcome this issue via US transplants and an FTA...
Where did you get this "1 million" figure?

If I'm not mistaken, Japan has a "self limit quota" of about 2.3 million exports to US each year, and has been exporting at that rate for decades.
 

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Paris show report reinforced this point

Taken from a good story on another auto site :

"The low-key nature of the Chinese presence at Paris was indicative of a sea-change in the export strategies of Chinese automakers. Rather than rushing to market, there is a clear indication that the better-resourced Chinese companies are throttling back on the ambitious plans announced in 2005, and are instead taking their time to get product, brand, distribution and service in place before entering sophisticated and competitive Western markets

There are several reasons for this. One of them was on display. The notorious Jiangling Motors Landwind SUV hit the headlines for all the wrong reasons last year when it failed an independent German crash test. The film of the test is horrific – in a 64kmh front-end impact, the car’s front-end collapses catastrophically, pushing the front wheel – and presumably the engine – back into the cab, while the steering column is pushed back into the driver’s head. The driver would not have survived, German safety agency ADAC concluded.

Because the car was imported under single type approval, it fell outside the scope of EuroNCAP testing, so avoiding the embarrassing nul points score it would surely have received.

The Landwind incident shocked the Chinese automakers. The story broke just before the 2005 Frankfurt Show, and for the Chinese automakers at the show, attention was focused on safety issues rather than their products and plans.

The fact remains that standards – both for safety and for emissions – are lower for the Chinese market than for the developed world. And automakers are still low on the learning curve, with products based on obsolete foreign designs, obtained either legally or through “piracy” of intellectual property, and manufactured by a relatively inexperienced workforce. The Landwind SUV is based on the Isuzu Rodeo, a 1980s design familiar in Europe as the Opel/Vauxhall Frontera. But it’s clearly not a Frontera - that car gained a three-star EuroNCAP rating."
 
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