[MarkusRD]

Hello Everyone !

It's my first post in here, but I have used this forum for some time now...


We are planning to buy cars that were converted from Petrol to Electric. The cars are from different brands:

Geely
FAW
ShuangHuan
Lifan
Chery


I'd be very greatful if you answer me : "If I Place my own logo in an electric converted car, is it Illegal in China ?"

You may Know MILES AUTOMOTIVE, right ? They sell EV's in USA. Well, they buy their cars from FAW, HAFEI and another company, and sell under their own "miles" badge. I'm pretty sure that they (manufacturers) wouldn't allow to do that, as I already spoke to LIFAN, but they do anyway. Therefore it must be legal to do it without permission ?

Any reply is highly appreciated !


Thank you !


Markus

 

[ash]

its not illegal if u are doing it to ur own car..

if u are trying re badge them and sell them, then thats illegal i think

 

[MarkusRD]

But what if they are all Converted cars ?

There is someone who does that in USA: Miles Automotive Group. They sell electric cars under their badge. I wonder if we could do that without Geely, FAW and ShuangHuan's Consent...

Thanks

 

[CCF mod]

I bet Miles Automotive has some kind of legal agreement with Chinese companies which gives them right to purchase chassises and install electrical engines inside. It's the same as with Ethyopian Holland cars which manufactures Lifan 520 under license
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/11/10/ethiopia-gets-its-first-automaker/

Your idea is 100% illegal.
I suggest you to contact manufacturers of cars you are interested in and make some arrangements with them.

 

[MarkusRD]

Thank you Martin !

Are you sure about that ?

What if we don't remove the logos from the cars, only sell them converted ??

Thanks

 

[MarkusRD]

Forgot to mention: The Selling will NOT be in China, it will be in South America. Does it changes anything ??

Thanks !

 

[CCF mod]

If I understood you correctly, you intend to buy various Chinese vehicles (I assume those which are already on sale in your country - or do you intend to import them from China?) and then install electric engines instead of the original ones.
About legality of your doing - study well all commercial laws of your country and contact some experts on that field. And as mentioned in my previous post, establish contact with dealers of Chinese vehicles or even better with manufacturers themselves.

Major question which comes to my mind is how do you plan ti finance your bussiness (probably small one at least at the beginning). If you intend to buy cars as a private person without any discounts it will cost you a lot. So, that's another reason why you should contact manufacturers first and try to arrange some kind of legal deal and discounts.

 

[MarkusRD]

If I understood you correctly, you intend to buy various Chinese vehicles (I assume those which are already on sale in your country - or do you intend to import them from China?) and then install electric engines instead of the original ones....

Actually they are not being sold in my country yet.

What I want to do is:

Buy some cars from China --->
Pay someone IN CHINA to convert the cars to Electric --->
Import the cars in my country and sell them in our Own Dealership under our brands.


Thank you Martin, I have written some e-mails to the International Dept. of all the brands I mentioned and I'm waiting their response.

Anything you learn about this matter, please post !

Thank you !

 

[CCF mod]

Are you sure demand for electric vehicles in South America in big enough for you to make profit? Even in Europe with bigger enviromental awareness clean cars are not selling well.

 

[MarkusRD]

We are still researching, but we are quite sure we can take advantage of the green cars here.

I'm waiting for the response from the Manufacturers still...

 

[aarathi]

The car uses a battery that can be charged through an electric socket at home. GM is designing the highly anticipated Volt to run 40 miles on battery power

 

[MarkusRD]

I didn't understand your message...

But the cars we are planning to buy have a range of ~110 miles and a max. speed of ~60mph.


--------

I'd like to add something to my post. You may Know MILES AUTOMOTIVE, right ? THey sell EV's in USA. Well, they buy their cars from FAW, HAFEI and other unknown company, and sell under their badge. I'm pretty sure that they wouldn't allow to do that, therefore it must be legal to do it ?

 

[dragin]

Hi Markus:

As for the legality of what you are planning to do, it depends on which country's legal system you are dealing with. Generally I would say that anything you import to a country can be given your name or logo if the selling manufacturer agrees. And at present, most Chinese companies (aside from the major nameplates) have no problem with that. If approved by the government as exporters, they are happy to do business with you.

But unless you are talking really big volumes, I am not sure if you will hear back from the companies you mentioned in this thread. Here are a few of the other electric vehicle manufacturers who you might want to look into.

Sorry the list is somewhat lacking in details.....


The BYD Co., Ltd.
Shenzhen, Guangdong Province
---------------------
Tianjin Qinyuan Electric Vehicle Co., Ltd. (affiliated with FAW)
Tianjin
Internet: www.qyev.com
Product: Happy Messenger
------------------------------
Li Shi Guang Ming Automobile Design Co,. Ltd
Beijing
Tel: 86-10-63790602,63790601
Fax: 86-10-63790597
E-mail: [email protected]
Internet: http://www.lsgm.com.cn/
Product: Tanghua Xiao Ya electric car
--------------------------------------------

HuoYun Electromobile Co., Ltd
Lujia Village Jixia District Office,
Zibo, Shandong Province 255400
Tel: +86-533-722-1890
E-mail: [email protected]
Internet: www.cnddc.com
Products: golf cars, electric minicars, and ATVs, a Daimler Smart lookalike
-----------------------------------------
Jindalu Vehicle Co., LTD (Zap’s partner)
Dezhou, Shandong Province
Tel+86-534-2355026
Cell: +86-13884686579
----------------------------------------------------------------------
CMEC
Suzhou, Jiangsu Province
Product: a Smart lookalike
----------------------------------------------
Zhaochang Electric Vehicle Technology Co., Ltd. (affiliated with Chery and SAIC)
Anhui Province
Product: ZC 7050 A P
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
Wuxi electric vehicle and truck factory
Nanmen Wuxi, Jiangsu Province 214021
Tel.:+86-512-575-4363
Fax: +86-512-575-1018
Internet: www.wxdpc.com
---------------------------------------------------------------
Zhuzhou Times Electric Vehicle Co., Ltd.
Zhuzhou, Hunan Province
Product: electric vehicles, electric transmission systems, components.
------------------------------------------------------------
Liaoning Electric Vehicle Co LEVCO
Liaoning Province
---------------------------------------------------------
I do wish you a lot of luck because in my opinion, fossil fuel powered vehicles are on their way to the dustbin of history.......and the world will be more peaceful and healthier for it.

 

[MarkusRD]

Thank you Dragin ! You helped a lot ! I am just trying to make sure about the logos, becouse I spoke to LIFAN, and they did not agree with changing logos, only the Car name, and only under a serious inspection by their side.

Thanks a gain and thank you for your support !


Markus

 

[Dr.Al]

Electric conversions

Markus,
I'm not sure that my comments will be helpful, but in the US any vehicle being imported must pass government safety and emissions muster before they are sold as new vehicles and there are homogenization standards too (minimal import numbers to meet). Large intermediaries, like Miles, often act as a conduit to see to it that these vehicles (that are imported from China) meet these requirements. In return for their capital outlay- they may have earned the rights to re-badge.
The follow up point is that these same vehicle makes and models must already be approved for sale AND MUST HAVE HAD AN ORIGINAL FACTORY OPTION MOTOR that meets or exceeds the standards set when originally approved for sale here. I only mention this because I have friends that ran into these problems a few years ago, when they tried to import European spec cars into the US; these "Gray Market" cars spent a great deal of time in customs before being released for sale.
Maybe none of the aforementioned issues apply in South American Countries, but I'd certainly check into the importation laws beforehand.
On the other hand, once a vehicle is considered "used" here, they can be converted to electric power without any hassles whatsoever. There are several US Companies that specialize in just this type of conversion. They sell kits to individuals from $6500. Perhaps a good alternate plan would be to price the costs of these electric conversion kits from the Chinese manufacturers and convert the late model used cars, already in your country, that have already been titled (now considered used). Just a thought.

 

[eXpLoiT]

Are you sure demand for electric vehicles in South America in big enough for you to make profit? Even in Europe with bigger enviromental awareness clean cars are not selling well.

 

[Dr.Al]

Markus,
Kudos to your efforts! I too am a firm believer that no more fossil fuel burning vehicles should be built or sold (as new). Therefore, I started from scratch and designed a solar electric vehicle (which realistically will probably take quite a while to make it to market). In fact, my research indicates upwards of 100 different companies with similar plans to offer electric vehicles in the near future. Of course none of these companies are the major Japanese, US or European Companies we all know so well; in fact, these big companies have banded together to actively subvert electric vehicle production (in spite of the worldwide consumer outcry for their production).
For now, it will be only the maverick independant activists, like you, that make this "Green" grassroots efforts happen. So, my suggestion to you is this: Yes, do buy the cars you set out to buy in China, but more importantly locate all of the conversion (to electric) components while you're there and forge a partnership with these Chinese component suppliers. At some point, in the not too distant future, petrol burning auto production will cease and there will be millions and millions of these cars awaiting the conversions at that point. If you are ready and prepared for that day (parts and conversion shops waiting)- you'll certainly make money and be cleaning up the planet in the process!

 

[MarkusRD]

I invite you all to watch the documentary: Who killed the Electric Car.

It's very interesting, you won't be dissapointed.

 

[danadrianrico]

Dear Martin

Cheers from neighboring on your efforts for the Brazillian market. However, I hope you dont have any plans to sell these cars in Bolivia lol thats my territory.

Anyways I have a startup company and Im looking for car manufacturers too. Im no expert, but I have 2 suggestions for you:

1.Have you considered just finding a chinese ev manufacturer? They are generally ready to work, have nice models (minus the smart copies lol) and very willing to do OEM for your brand.

2.If in need of a regular car, search out small factories like jiangnan, soyat, Rongchen, Pulaide, and others. And if you have any luck, u wanna help me out too??

We are completley different: You want ev's, I am importing petrol cars & suv's. Yet we are both businessman in South America. Who knows what will happen.

=======================================
I forgot 2 mention: I am talking with an EV company in china to convert on of there electric models to petrol. Funny? I have no other choice.

 

[danadrianrico]

U know this just gave me an Idea: Zotye owns jiangnan. If we work together convince them to start production of old models, this could benefit us both. You get city spirit, I get Chuanqi, split fengstar, call it a day. Whats your thoughts?