Saab in China
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nzsaab and KiwiGuy-by now I'm sure you already know this but I'll report on it anyway. GM has given the axe to Saab. The deal to sell to Spyker has indeed failed.
http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1040404_gm-shutters-saab-as-attempts-to-sell-fail
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http://www.allcarselectric.com/blog/1040404_gm-shutters-saab-as-attempts-to-sell-fail
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Good day Rally Red Lancer GTS - Enter NZSAAB for his view . . .
Kia Ora all, GM HAS ANNOUNCED WIND DOWN OF SAAB AUTOMOBILE AB as of JAN 1 2010
This is a sad day for all us Saab owners and enthusiasts.
BUT WAIT! - THAT WAS YESTERDAY! THINGS HAVE CHANGED AGAIN!
A little bird informed me today that Spyker are back in the game with a revised 8 point plan on buying Saab Automobile AB from General Motors Corp.
It was GM that backed out on the deal, not Spyker. GM was worried because one of Spykers major backers is Russian and yankies dont like vodka addicts so GM pulled out. It was said that the contracts for Spyker and GM to sign on the line for purchase were on a plane in Sweden (probably a Saab 340 or 2000) enroute to the venue of signing. When GM yelled NEJ!(swedish for no)
GM have said they will consider more offers between now and wind down so lets hope they accept Spykers buyout offer.
Im thinking so what if Spyker buys Saab and the whole thing collapses in the next few years, atleast the 9-5 and 9-4x came out! I just think it would be a shame if the 9-5 and 9-4x were never built.
Im interested in your take on this KiwiGuy
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It all depends on whether Spyker can get in there before BAIC can make its mind up. Spyker is only a small firm which makes luxury sports cars and I wouldn't think it has that much money since its sole model, the C8, has been in production in small numbers for about four or five years. However, these cars don't come cheap, so maybe it does have the money to pruchase Saab.
Here's what Spyker makes: the C8
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Compare this to Saab and you will find it is a bit of an oxymoron.
Here's what Spyker makes: the C8
Compare this to Saab and you will find it is a bit of an oxymoron.
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I'll give you my take, nzsaab. I hope the Spyker deal goes through, too, because I'd also like to see at least the 9-5 Aero built, man. Let's hope for the best, GM's self-imposed deadline is the end of Dec.2009 to get this done.
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I don't get what you mean about Americans not liking Russians. Chrysler recently sold some tooling to Russian manufacturer GAZ to produce the previous generation Chrysler Sebring as the Volga Siber. Chevrolet sells cars in Russia, albeit they are Daewoos and, as you well know, Boeing is finding a big market with Russian airlines.
General Motors is still reeling after the massive budget cuts as part of the bailout package. They can't afford to mess around selling companies to manufacturers with little or no business credentials if it means that GM will make a loss out of the deal.
General Motors is still reeling after the massive budget cuts as part of the bailout package. They can't afford to mess around selling companies to manufacturers with little or no business credentials if it means that GM will make a loss out of the deal.
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But just liquidating assets is a losing deal for GM. They need to find a buyer to get the most out of their Saab "investment", eh?
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KiwiGuy
What I can confirm from inside Saab is that the reasons for General Motors to pull out of the first deal with Spyker were concerns with the Russian backer somone Antonov (nothing to do with the Russian aircaft maker Antonov that I know). Its tied up with a Russian bank. Gets very messy.
Another concern was also what you raised. Money. It was made higly public by european media that Sypker had no money and its true and not. The manufacturer probably doesnt have much money in its accounts but thats not to say its investors dont.
Part of the deal to buy Saab Automobile from GM is that Spyker have enough cash to "clinch the deal" so to speak before 31st Dec 09. However they dont have enough cash to run Saab long term so its planed to go for loans from most likely the European Bank during early next year to fully buyout Saab.
Long story short. Spyker have met all the issues that have arisen from the first deal that went wrong after GM pulled out. Spyker have removed the Russian backer from the deal as I know.
Its messy to explain everything in one go.
You (readers of China Car Forums) are welcome to put clear questions to me and I will answer them like a press conference. Use Bold for the question to me
What I can confirm from inside Saab is that the reasons for General Motors to pull out of the first deal with Spyker were concerns with the Russian backer somone Antonov (nothing to do with the Russian aircaft maker Antonov that I know). Its tied up with a Russian bank. Gets very messy.
Another concern was also what you raised. Money. It was made higly public by european media that Sypker had no money and its true and not. The manufacturer probably doesnt have much money in its accounts but thats not to say its investors dont.
Part of the deal to buy Saab Automobile from GM is that Spyker have enough cash to "clinch the deal" so to speak before 31st Dec 09. However they dont have enough cash to run Saab long term so its planed to go for loans from most likely the European Bank during early next year to fully buyout Saab.
Long story short. Spyker have met all the issues that have arisen from the first deal that went wrong after GM pulled out. Spyker have removed the Russian backer from the deal as I know.
Its messy to explain everything in one go.
You (readers of China Car Forums) are welcome to put clear questions to me and I will answer them like a press conference. Use Bold for the question to me
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oh and about the Russian thing, I agree with you Kiwiguy. GM are just making excuses. From what Ive heard GM really would rather see Saab die because Saab currently posseses alot of new GM technology that a new buyer would gain ownership of. Basicly they would fight GM with GM's tech. GM dont want that.
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2010 Saab 9-5 May Become Buick for USA only! - NZSAAB IS OUTRAGED
I have recieved news that GM is considering its options for Saab's assets which include its "soon to come" model range.
GM is planning to rebadge the 2010 9-5 Sedan and offer it in the USA and Canada as a Buick model!
GM is also considering to rebadge it as a premium speced Opel.
It has been reported that General Motors are seeing more benifits long term in shutting down Saab than selling it. Yes it will cost around 2Billion US dollars to close Saab completly over 5 years however GM will retain its technology and capitilize on Saabs other assets such as offices, dealer networks etc.
I would imagine the 9-4x would simply be cancelled and not rebadged into anything because it is already a sister of a Cadillac model. The refinements and more premium changes Saab made to that platform will most likely be implemented into the facelift of the Cadillac model.
Saab have 2000 new cars ordered awaiting manufacturer which will have to be assembled so production in Trollhatten will continue next year however new orders will not be taken after December 31.
The Saab 9-3 Convertible will begin production in Trollhatten for the first time in Jan to fulfill the orders already placed.
The Saab 9-3 SportSedan and SportCombi will continue to fullfill orders and the model range drops the V6 Turbo for 2010.
The Saab 9-5 SportEstate will fulfill its small remaining orders and tooling will begin being dismantled to be shipped to China for BAIC.
The Saab 9-3x will continue to fullfill orders from this year.
The Saab 9-5 Sedan tooling which is almost fully complete will sit pending what will happen to it next. There are 3 options:
- 1. it stays in Trollhatten and produces a rebadged version only of the 9-5 as a Buick for America.
- 2. It stays in Trollhatten following a sucessful sale to Spyker or other
- 3. It gets packed up and shipped to USA to assemble Buicks on home soil.
GM's global portfolio of Premium Brands officially consists as of today Cadillac and Hummer (Saab was removed following the stock purchase agreement with the big K.) Hummer is in the process of sale to China so that leaves Cadillac to fulfill GM's premium market worldwide!
Cadillac is currently very small in Europe however the closure of Saab means GM will no longer have to fork out money to promote two premium brands in Europe meaning GM Europe has more money for Cadillac. Cadillac could take the place of Saab at dealers all over Europe and around the world.
Cadillac was meant to enter the Australian market this year however GM Holden (Which owns and operates the GM Premium Brands portfolio in Australia NZ) pushed the entry back due to low sales of all cars across Oz. It is likely now with the absense of Saab Automobile's new car sales at selected Australian GM Holden dealers Cadillac will simply enter Saabs empty showrooms.
I have recieved news that GM is considering its options for Saab's assets which include its "soon to come" model range.
GM is planning to rebadge the 2010 9-5 Sedan and offer it in the USA and Canada as a Buick model!
GM is also considering to rebadge it as a premium speced Opel.
It has been reported that General Motors are seeing more benifits long term in shutting down Saab than selling it. Yes it will cost around 2Billion US dollars to close Saab completly over 5 years however GM will retain its technology and capitilize on Saabs other assets such as offices, dealer networks etc.
I would imagine the 9-4x would simply be cancelled and not rebadged into anything because it is already a sister of a Cadillac model. The refinements and more premium changes Saab made to that platform will most likely be implemented into the facelift of the Cadillac model.
Saab have 2000 new cars ordered awaiting manufacturer which will have to be assembled so production in Trollhatten will continue next year however new orders will not be taken after December 31.
The Saab 9-3 Convertible will begin production in Trollhatten for the first time in Jan to fulfill the orders already placed.
The Saab 9-3 SportSedan and SportCombi will continue to fullfill orders and the model range drops the V6 Turbo for 2010.
The Saab 9-5 SportEstate will fulfill its small remaining orders and tooling will begin being dismantled to be shipped to China for BAIC.
The Saab 9-3x will continue to fullfill orders from this year.
The Saab 9-5 Sedan tooling which is almost fully complete will sit pending what will happen to it next. There are 3 options:
- 1. it stays in Trollhatten and produces a rebadged version only of the 9-5 as a Buick for America.
- 2. It stays in Trollhatten following a sucessful sale to Spyker or other
- 3. It gets packed up and shipped to USA to assemble Buicks on home soil.
GM's global portfolio of Premium Brands officially consists as of today Cadillac and Hummer (Saab was removed following the stock purchase agreement with the big K.) Hummer is in the process of sale to China so that leaves Cadillac to fulfill GM's premium market worldwide!
Cadillac is currently very small in Europe however the closure of Saab means GM will no longer have to fork out money to promote two premium brands in Europe meaning GM Europe has more money for Cadillac. Cadillac could take the place of Saab at dealers all over Europe and around the world.
Cadillac was meant to enter the Australian market this year however GM Holden (Which owns and operates the GM Premium Brands portfolio in Australia NZ) pushed the entry back due to low sales of all cars across Oz. It is likely now with the absense of Saab Automobile's new car sales at selected Australian GM Holden dealers Cadillac will simply enter Saabs empty showrooms.
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Yes, because GM already has its own luxury brand which sells in china as well: Cadillac. Apparently, Cadillacs have improved in quality in the same timeframe that Saab has declined. However, it doesn't help sales when everyone yawns loudly when a new 9-5 is shown to the public.
My new verdict (even though it is off topic): Fleet car.
My new verdict (even though it is off topic): Fleet car.
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KiwiGuy
Im somewhat confused with what you have commented above.
Im amused at how you so very much enjoy taking a stab at Saab and its models because you know I get defensive and fight back with facts about how wrong you are so here goes!
You are correct, Saab's build quality has slipped in recent years. You know why? Because General Motors oredered Saab to cut costs. They began in 2003 to be exact. General Motors was shocked to realise Saab had spent around 300 million US dollars developing the 9-3 Sedan and Convertible and 2.0 turbo engine that GM threatened to shut Saab down if it didnt reduce costs from there on in. Here are some examples:
-Saab was forced to cut the 9-5 production in 2003 from two shifts to one and merge final assembly with the 9-3 Sedan.
-GM forced Saab into spending its product development allowance (which was intended on developing a 9-5 replacement in 2003-4) on developing a new fast to market model, the 9-2x with Fuji Heavy Industries. Because the 9-2x was basicly an improved and restyled Impreza there was development money left over so a cross over suv based on the Subaru Tribica was developed as the 9-6x, however GM sold its 8% stake in Fuji Heavy Industries and Saab was forced to borrow the GM360 platform and also borrow the Oldsmobile Bravada body to create the 9-7x SUV.
-2004 saw Saabs interior quality slip in the 9-5 with the replacement of vynal dashboards with hard plastic and lesser quality leather in all models to reduce costs.
-Due to GM wanting Saab to create two quick market models rather than replace an existing model with an all new one Saab had no money left for developing the all new 9-5 and we ended up with the Dame Edna 9-5 instead.
-GM cancelled several varients of the 9-3 range that Saab proposed including a coupe. A crossover wagon was put on hold and didnt arrive until this year!
In short, its not Saab's fault its quality was bad, its GM's.
Cadillac's current portfolio doesnt really suit the conditions and requirents of most Europeans. The vehicles are too big and lack what Saab's vehicles offered. The Saab based BLS could have been a big hit had GM had more dealers.
Im not sure what you meant about 'fleet car'. I could write a whole page on facts about fleet cars but I will only do that if my readers request!
Im somewhat confused with what you have commented above.
Im amused at how you so very much enjoy taking a stab at Saab and its models because you know I get defensive and fight back with facts about how wrong you are so here goes!
You are correct, Saab's build quality has slipped in recent years. You know why? Because General Motors oredered Saab to cut costs. They began in 2003 to be exact. General Motors was shocked to realise Saab had spent around 300 million US dollars developing the 9-3 Sedan and Convertible and 2.0 turbo engine that GM threatened to shut Saab down if it didnt reduce costs from there on in. Here are some examples:
-Saab was forced to cut the 9-5 production in 2003 from two shifts to one and merge final assembly with the 9-3 Sedan.
-GM forced Saab into spending its product development allowance (which was intended on developing a 9-5 replacement in 2003-4) on developing a new fast to market model, the 9-2x with Fuji Heavy Industries. Because the 9-2x was basicly an improved and restyled Impreza there was development money left over so a cross over suv based on the Subaru Tribica was developed as the 9-6x, however GM sold its 8% stake in Fuji Heavy Industries and Saab was forced to borrow the GM360 platform and also borrow the Oldsmobile Bravada body to create the 9-7x SUV.
-2004 saw Saabs interior quality slip in the 9-5 with the replacement of vynal dashboards with hard plastic and lesser quality leather in all models to reduce costs.
-Due to GM wanting Saab to create two quick market models rather than replace an existing model with an all new one Saab had no money left for developing the all new 9-5 and we ended up with the Dame Edna 9-5 instead.
-GM cancelled several varients of the 9-3 range that Saab proposed including a coupe. A crossover wagon was put on hold and didnt arrive until this year!
In short, its not Saab's fault its quality was bad, its GM's.
Cadillac's current portfolio doesnt really suit the conditions and requirents of most Europeans. The vehicles are too big and lack what Saab's vehicles offered. The Saab based BLS could have been a big hit had GM had more dealers.
Im not sure what you meant about 'fleet car'. I could write a whole page on facts about fleet cars but I will only do that if my readers request!
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About the Buick comment. I thought it was quite funny. You do realize, nzsaab, that outside China and some small Arab kingdoms, Buicks are brought by old people. Maybe this rumoured 9-5 production in the US by Buick to get in the "youth orinetated" sector of the market to compete with companies like Toyota and Honda.
My description of a fleet car is this. A fleet car is designed as dull as a bucket of beige paint, to be like the auotmotive equivalent of a ham and cheese sandwich. Just look at any Audi, BMW or Mercedes or Toyota.
My description of a fleet car is this. A fleet car is designed as dull as a bucket of beige paint, to be like the auotmotive equivalent of a ham and cheese sandwich. Just look at any Audi, BMW or Mercedes or Toyota.
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Well if Buick use everything the 9-5 Aero was intended for I think it would be out of Toyota and Hondas league. More Lexus and Acura.
Ill let you know here and now that I enjoy ham and cheese sandwiches as you may recall from college. (remember the beef schnitzel?)
Ill let you know here and now that I enjoy ham and cheese sandwiches as you may recall from college. (remember the beef schnitzel?)
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Whoo-hoo! My Grandpa used to love and drive Buick's. And now if GM is gonna produce a Saab 9-5 Aero sedan and sell it as a Buick I may be carrying on the family heritage in a grand way then. Makes me tickle up all pink and silly over the whole thing.
Y'all realize what this means? It means you can still buy a Saab 9-5 Aero! I hope they stick to this.
Y'all realize what this means? It means you can still buy a Saab 9-5 Aero! I hope they stick to this.
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Rally Red Lancer GTS
Im glad your impressed about the Buick idea, I dont reccomend saying that on saabsunited.com
Yes you may get the 9-5 in Buick form but the rest of the world misses out all together. I would rather hope GM decide to sell or retain the Saab brand over simply liquidating the company and rebranding cars that Swedes have worked so hard to complete.
Im glad your impressed about the Buick idea, I dont reccomend saying that on saabsunited.com
Yes you may get the 9-5 in Buick form but the rest of the world misses out all together. I would rather hope GM decide to sell or retain the Saab brand over simply liquidating the company and rebranding cars that Swedes have worked so hard to complete.
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Inside Saab factory
Since BAIC has taken over Saab 9-3 and 9-5, here are some good pictures of the Saab factory inside pictures (scroll down a bit then you see)
http://www.cluntan.com/auto/viewthread.php?tid=294
Since BAIC has taken over Saab 9-3 and 9-5, here are some good pictures of the Saab factory inside pictures (scroll down a bit then you see)
http://www.cluntan.com/auto/viewthread.php?tid=294
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nzsaab-I agree with you totally, man. It's kinda cheap to hail the Buick idea, I know. So sorry about what's happened and it's really a lame situation for such a good carmaker to be in. Bites the big one big-time.
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