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I can't believe korean electronics giant Samsung is now making cars too. the cars looks kind of ugly, Chery flagcloud looks much better. maybe chinese companies like TCL, lenovo, and Haier should make cars too.





 

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Samsung started to make cars way back in 1998. In 2000 Renault bought a 70% stake. Now the company is called Renault Samsung Motors. Samsung has three models in production which are all Nissan designs (Renault has a controlling share of Nissan company):

SM3 = (redesigned Nissan Almera/Bluebird Sylphy)
SM5 = (Nissan Maxima; this was the first Samsung model)
SM7 = (Nissan Teana)

Also some trucks are made (Nissan-Diesel design).
 

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lol.

They only sell SAMSUNG in Korea.
 

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...and in Russia and South-America
 

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come on in, the waters fine

hazik said:
I can't believe korean electronics giant Samsung is now making cars too. the cars looks kind of ugly, Chery flagcloud looks much better. maybe chinese companies like TCL, lenovo, and Haier should make cars too.
Yes, Hazik everyone wanted to get in the act but now in China it's almost impossible to get a license to build. Some of those successful appliance and electronic companies who have jumped in so far are Chunlan, Amoi, BYD, and Ningbo Bird. Maybe there are others as well........
 

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this is crazy!...wow...and it looks identical to a nissan sentra

Yeah, all of the Samsungs are just Nissans by another name. Renault-Nissan is pretty much in control of the entire car-making venture at Samsung.

It's possible that some future models might be based on Renaults instead - I think I heard that Samsung was interested in possibly using the Dacia Logan (also a Renault-Nissan brand and design) or possibly the Renault Modus as the basis for a cheap micro.
 

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Samsung's auto making business history.

Samsung's CEO is a car fanatic and has a large collection of supercars that he drives in his personal track to this day.

In the early 90s, Samsung's CEO decided that he wanted to pursue his dream of making cars and was ready to commit tens of billions of dollars to build a world class car company. Unfortunately, the Asian financial crisis struck at the completion of his first auto factory at the cost of $4 billion, and the government gave Samsung CEO an ultimatum; take over bankrupt Kia or get out of auto-making business to comply with a nationwide restructuring. Samsung CEO decided to get out of auto making business and sold the auto company to Renault in 2000, which continues to license Samsung brand to sell their cars. Samsung then shifted planned $20 billion investment reserve to Samsung Electronics which then became the No. 1 CE manufacturer in the world.

Had the Asian Financial Crisis of 1997 not come, history might have changed as Samsung was willing to outspend Hyundai and Samsung's quality was outstanding for such a new company, whose long-term reliability was twice as good as Hyundai's and was better than Nissans that they were based on.

The lesson of Samsung's failed automotive venture is that it takes in excess of $20 billion to set up a car campany that can compete in quality. $20 billion that Chery or Geely doesn't have.
 

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It might take $20Bn to start from scratch. But some Chinese companies, like FAW and Shanghai-VW, have been around for a very long time and have very diverse sources of revenue.

Part of being able to compete depends on what you've already got.

Kia motors was essentially nonexistent during the early 80's, despite beating Hyundai to the punch with a Korean-built car in the early seventies. They built a company into something pretty nice by the time Hyundai took them over, in the span of a mere 14 years between the resumption of production of the Mazda 121/Ford Festiva/Kia Pride and the Hyundai acquisition they went from being a Chery-sized also ran to a world player (albeit a minor one).

The story is similar for Hyundai, who only built their first car 33 years ago and only became a true world force in the last ten years.

Hyundai and Kia didn't have a government willing to bolster them during their major growth years - Chery and FAW do. Not only that, Hyundai and Kia's best years have come in the wake of the Asian economic crisis, while Chery and the other Chinese makers are riding the largest single wave of prosperity to hit any industrialized nation since the United States in the 1950's.

I would say that the Chinese makers have far better chances, for logical reasons, than you think.
 

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I've seen SAMSUNG cars since the 90s in Egypt,
They are very DULL and looks like american cars ( very long ) yet has a Nissan Sunny / Corrolla feel on them .
 

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I would say that the Chinese makers have far better chances, for logical reasons, than you think.
It is the cash reserve that determines who wins or fails in the auto business, as more money allows you to build better plants and spend more in R&D, which in turn generates more profits to reinvest.

The cash reserve that Chery has is in hundreds of millions of dollars, which isn't enough to pay for the R&D cost of single US/EU regulation-compliant modern chassis + powertrain, much less build new capacity. This is why current and future crop of Cherys look crappy and out of date, because Chery doesn't have the money to improve their product.

When Japanese and Koreas were challengers, it took 4 years to design a new car. Now that figure has gone down to 1 year for Toyota and 16 months for Hyundai. While Chinese play a catch up, the industry leaders keep redesigning even faster.
 

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Real_I_Hate_China said:
The lesson of Samsung's failed automotive venture is that it takes in excess of $20 billion to set up a car campany that can compete in quality. $20 billion that Chery or Geely doesn't have.
you could do alot more with $1 america in china than you could anywhere else. just look at the Shenzou project (the project where china brought man to space), the whole project to less cost than maintaining NASA for one year. (by the way korea, japan, germany, britain, etc all dont have the technology to bring man to space)
 

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Real_I_Hate_China said:
When Japanese and Koreas were challengers, it took 4 years to design a new car. Now that figure has gone down to 1 year for Toyota and 16 months for Hyundai. While Chinese play a catch up, the industry leaders keep redesigning even faster.
you cant compare china with japan and korea, china is bigger, more population, more smart graduates, huge market, and lots of CBC's and ABC's having education in the US, Canada, australia etc that are snucking over to china to work, i mean come on one in five to the people in the whole world is chinese while theres only like 1 in 5000000000 that are korea or japanese. if each person in china takes a piss its enough to drown japan and korea, comparing these two is like having a mouse arm wrestle a human.
yo hater have you ever read articles of how china is on an economic boom, i mean a huge ecomomic boom??? buddy you hear about this all the time??? the momentum of the chinese is way faster than korea and japan, china would catch up in no time.
 

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In order to become better competitors on the world stage, Chinese manufactures first must seize control over the domestic market, expanding there loyal consumer base, then strengthening of copyright laws, encouraging domestic engineers to make there own products without fear, consolidate the resources, make a few strong competitors, rather than many week corporations, in the process getting rid of high local tariffs established between cities, and to clean up the communist burocratic nonsense, that favors making the leader look good in there own term, rather than looking out for what is best for the economy in the future. In the reality, the fastest way to force change is to allow manufactures to choose a route in which survival can only be achieved through working together, in this case a crash course in U.S. industry competition, in which the strong shall live and the weak will only serve as food for the strong.
 

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DOS said:
In order to become better competitors on the world stage, Chinese manufactures first must seize control over the domestic market, expanding there loyal consumer base, then strengthening of copyright laws, encouraging domestic engineers to make there own products without fear, consolidate the resources, make a few strong competitors, rather than many week corporations, in the process getting rid of high local tariffs established between cities, and to clean up the communist burocratic nonsense, that favors making the leader look good in there own term, rather than looking out for what is best for the economy in the future. In the reality, the fastest way to force change is to allow manufactures to choose a route in which survival can only be achieved through working together, in this case a crash course in U.S. industry competition, in which the strong shall live and the weak will only serve as food for the strong.
yes,,,but their domestic market will potentially be the biggest market in the world...so in the mean time....they can try to tackle both....

i understand what your saying, but the main factor is time...i think they shud try entering domestic markets asap...
 

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Real_I_Hate_China said:
It is the cash reserve that determines who wins or fails in the auto business, as more money allows you to build better plants and spend more in R&D, which in turn generates more profits to reinvest.

The cash reserve that Chery has is in hundreds of millions of dollars, which isn't enough to pay for the R&D cost of single US/EU regulation-compliant modern chassis + powertrain, much less build new capacity. This is why current and future crop of Cherys look crappy and out of date, because Chery doesn't have the money to improve their product.

When Japanese and Koreas were challengers, it took 4 years to design a new car. Now that figure has gone down to 1 year for Toyota and 16 months for Hyundai. While Chinese play a catch up, the industry leaders keep redesigning even faster.
In last 6 months Chery has brought three new models in the market and more models are to follow. In China's auto industry one year is a long time. Look at Geely, in one year they have almost completely revolutionized their model lineup. It feels like they have a new model coming almost every month: CK-1, FC, LG-1...

It must be remembered that it is now much more challenging to design cars when compared to 1960's when Japanese started. Requirements concerning emissions and safety are growing all the time. Of course industry leaders keep improving their products but it's not impossible to catch them some day. For example South-Korean's are slowly catching up Japanese and ten years from now they are guaranteed to be in the same level as Japanese are. Same thing will happen to China, not soon but maybe 15 years from now.

And about the costs; it cost only 120M $ for China to send two men to space...
 

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I continue to disagree, Real.

Hyundai's first car, the Pony, served for 12 years as it's main vehicle, with a reworked Cortina (the Stellar) as it's companion. Hyundai then used cast-off Mitsubishi hardware into the mid-90's. One Hyundai-built car was even sold as a low-cost Mitsubishi in the USA as part of the deal (the long-forgotten Mitsubishi Precis).

Almost all of the Asian manufacturers, except for Honda, evolved out of similar circumstances - making lightly modified versions of cast-offs or licensed copies of ongoing designs.

That's where China is right now - but it's growth has been such that domestically-engineered and styled models have come around quicker on a world scale than they did in Korea.

Furthermore, you're only thinking of Chinese cars as if they popped up two weeks ago - they've been making cars for quite some time in China, so they have a basic idea of what they have to do to make the product. When they face stiffer competition in other markets, they'll learn quickly how to make it competitive. And the flexibility of China's industry - to turn things around very quickly and adapt production changes literally overnight - makes them much more of a player than you think.
 

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Raul said:
In last 6 months Chery has brought three new models in the market and more models are to follow. In China's auto industry one year is a long time. Look at Geely, in one year they have almost completely revolutionized their model lineup. It feels like they have a new model coming almost every month: CK-1, FC, LG-1...
i totally agree, and i just think this proves that hyundai is not really the worlds fastest growing automaker, lol
 

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recalls

What continues to amaze me is that Chery, now among the top ten, has only had one voluntary recall that has been publicized. They picked a whimpy visor mirror switch that would stick closed, discharging the battery. This really is the only one I have read about among China's domestic makers. As for the foreign players, the Chinese government has held them accountable and ordered a number of recalls.

Anyway the real test for Chinese auto exporters will come in the developed markets. There you can't hide anything, and one big recall can financially bring a car company to its knees very quickly.
 

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Raul said:
In last 6 months Chery has brought three new models in the market and more models are to follow. In China's auto industry one year is a long time. Look at Geely, in one year they have almost completely revolutionized their model lineup. It feels like they have a new model coming almost every month: CK-1, FC, LG-1...
Pretty much same car with different sheet metal and interior trims.

Raul said:
Same thing will happen to China, not soon but maybe 15 years from now.
The gap can be narrowed only if the leaders slow down while Chinese accelerate. But this isn't the case here, as we see industry leaders actually pulling ahead and widening the gap.

Japanese caught up to US and German automakers by redesigning their models every 4 year as opposed to every 10 year. For Chinese to catch up to Japanese they too have to redesign their models every two year, which is both beyond the means of Chinese engineering and is too costly.

Vitesse said:
That's where China is right now - but it's growth has been such that domestically-engineered and styled models have come around quicker on a world scale than they did in Korea.
I wouldn't call Cherys and Geelys "domestically-engineered and styled". Well, at least Geelys are wearing original Geely stlying, I will give Geely a credit for that.

There has yet to be a Chery with an original Chery chassis that is not an illegal replica of Daewoo, an original engine design that is not bought from foreigners like AVL, and an original inhouse styling not from Italy. In other word, Chery doesn't know how to engineer a car, all they know is how to replicate and assemble. Chery and Geely have a long way to go before bringing out a car that they designed themselves.

dragin said:
Anyway the real test for Chinese auto exporters will come in the developed markets. There you can't hide anything, and one big recall can financially bring a car company to its knees very quickly.
Don't expect to see Chinese cars in developed markets for a long time. Chinese are busy selling to their home market at the moment. Maybe then some developing markets where the emphasis is on price and not quality/performance.
 
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