[Real_I_Hate_China]

Toyota permits its suppliers to sell to Honda, but not to this competitor.

 

[gr8]

next would be DONT SELL PARTS TO CHERY lol, and chery would say I DONT NEED YOUR CRAPPY EXPENSIVE PARTS. and by that time you would see no more of the legendary hyundai.

 

[proximal]

and by that time you would see no more of the legendary hyundai.

What? The reason Toyota doesn't want share suppliers with Hyundai is because both companies are suppliers themselves. Hyundai Mobis is the fastest growing auto supplier, while Toyota's Aisin is one of the largest. Anything that benefits Hyundai will benefit Hyundai Mobis, which is why Hyundai is seen as a threat by Toyota.

 

[Real_I_Hate_China]

next would be DONT SELL PARTS TO CHERY lol, and chery would say I DONT NEED YOUR CRAPPY EXPENSIVE PARTS.

It's not like Chery could afford Toyota's expensive parts. To carry an MSRP iof $19,000 while paying a 30% commission to Malcolm(15%) and his dealers(15%), those Cherys must be built for $9000 in Wuhu.

What? The reason Toyota doesn't want share suppliers with Hyundai is because both companies are suppliers themselves. Hyundai Mobis is the fastest growing auto supplier, while Toyota's Aisin is one of the largest. Anything that benefits Hyundai will benefit Hyundai Mobis, which is why Hyundai is seen as a threat by Toyota.

"There was at least a time when we were told to sell as much parts as possible to other carmakers, except for Nissan,"

Toyota prohibited the sales of its parts only to its biggest rival, Nissan(No. 2 Japanese automaker before the collapse and the subsequent take-over by Renault), while encouraging parts sales to everybody else, because Toyota didn't feel the other little guys as threatening.

Fast forward to 2006 and Hyundai replaced Nissan on this "Don't sell to this guy" list. Why? Because of the 2006 J.D. Power quality survey bombshell; which found Hyundais to be of a higher quality than Toyotas.

The lesson of this story? Quality doesn't come cheap. The only way Hyundai was able to approach Toyota in quality was by paying Toyota prices on certain key parts, which in turn raised Hyundai's price to Toyota level. There is no way a $19,000 Chery could have the quality of a $19,000 Toyota or Hyundai, thanks to Malcolm Bricklin and his dealer's 30% mark-up.

 

[gr8]

hey mr hater money does not always equal to quality. just look around your house and take out all the stuff that says MADE IN CHINA, replace those stuff with things like MADE IN JAPAN or ITALY or GERMANY and you would find yourself bankrupt but quality still remains the same. The reason why toyota and honda's are more expensive is because those cars are made in US, the wage of the american guy holding the wrench is alot more than the wage of the chinese guy holding the same wrench.

 

[Admin]

hey mr hater money does not always equal to quality. just look around your house and take out all the stuff that says MADE IN CHINA, replace those stuff with things like MADE IN JAPAN or ITALY or GERMANY and you would find yourself bankrupt but quality still remains the same. The reason why toyota and honda's are more expensive is because those cars are made in US, the wage of the american guy holding the wrench is alot more than the wage of the chinese guy holding the same wrench.

i totally agree..
its perception of worth...

 

[Real_I_Hate_China]

The reason why toyota and honda's are more expensive is because those cars are made in US, the wage of the american guy holding the wrench is alot more than the wage of the chinese guy holding the same wrench.

You got it backward. It costs MORE to put together a Toyota in China than in Japan or in the US. Why? Because China is not able to supply critical parts and all major critical parts must be imported at a great expense.

Wages matter little when the worker productivity is 100 cars/person. At $70,000 per worker(wage + benefits), that amounts to only $700 per car, which is easily wiped out by a greater distance logistics cost.

Auto-making in China might have been cost-competitive when the worker productivity was low 10 years ago, or for US automakers still struggling with a low productivity. But not today.

 

[fightingtorque]

Hater, you're going into total BS mode again. 700 dollars of labour in the car, where do you think all the rest comes from ? PARTS. And you think those parts are made without labour? You get savings all the way through.

Without wishing to give too much away, I can tell you that inside a Chery engine you will find almost all the parts are made in china, although made by a mixture of foreign invested (including VW suppliers, GM suppliers, Ford Suppliers, Toyota suppliers) and Chinese owned companies. The parts from the Chinese companies are cheaper than the foreign invested parts (although there is a value argument in favour of the foreign parts when you factor in the development capability), whilst the foreign invested but made in china parts are cheaper than made in the west parts.

You will also find Chinese parts increasingly used in Western engines. Current Equinox vehicle built by GM in canada uses an engine from Shanghai GM with locally produced internals, and at least one European engine will have some China made cylinder components in it's next iteration. VW is going to build it's new 1.8 and 2.0 FSI turbo engines in China and some of the china sourced parts are already lined up to go back for European build.

This future lowering of cost will help the Western car producers compete, and they need to because competitors like Chery are getting the benefits already.

But you still think China doesn't have any parts industry because you read it on the internet so it must be true.

 

[Real_I_Hate_China]

PARTS. And you think those parts are made without labour? You get savings all the way through.

Don't worry, parts industry is even more efficient than automobile assembly industry.

whilst the foreign invested but made in china parts are cheaper than made in the west parts.

Of course foreign-made parts cost more than domestically produced parts in China. Isn't it obvious?

You will also find Chinese parts increasingly used in Western engines.

Sure. Aluminium is subsidized by Chinese government and Chinese price is lower than international market price.

This future lowering of cost will help the Western car producers compete, and they need to because competitors like Chery are getting the benefits already.

Well, VW and GM don't exactly have a reputation for quality. Those with quality reputations have an aversion for Chinese parts.

But you still think China doesn't have any parts industry because you read it on the internet so it must be true.

Of course China does have a parts industry; it is not just good enough to supply US and EU markets. Hence the reason why EU-market Honda Fit has a 10% Chinese supplier provided content.

 

[fightingtorque]

Don't worry, parts industry is even more efficient than automobile assembly industry.

So you mean parts companies run entirely without human beings? What are all these people doing around me, should I send them home?

Of course foreign-made parts cost more than domestically produced parts in China. Isn't it obvious?.

I didn't say foreign made, I said foreign invested. Please concentrate.

Sure. Aluminium is subsidized by Chinese government and Chinese price is lower than international market price.

You read that on the internet and showed us the post. I told you before, I'ts wrong.

Of course China does have a parts industry; it is not just good enough to supply US and EU markets. Hence the reason why EU-market Honda Fit has a 10% Chinese supplier provided content.

You're Honda fit thing is still unsubstantiated and I am sure you will find high localisation within a short period of time, the limiting factor being the time to complete the validation work.

 

[dragin]

applause

Fighting Torque and Realihate, we applaud you both for the very civilized debate you are contributing to this forum. We may disagree, but there's a lot to learn from this gentlemanly discussion.