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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
August 25,2008

Since the beginning of 2008, with raw material costs and oil prices rising constantly and “made in China” moving into cooler weather, the Chinese car market has caught a cold and domestic brands are the biggest sneezers.


Market share for China’s own brands grew from 21.7% in 2001, to 26.6% in 2006, and up to 29.6% in the first three months of 2007. But since the second half of 2007, their share has dropped to 25.8% in the first three months of 2008. In July, Chery’s domestic and international sales amounted to about 22,800 units, a fall of 39.88% over the previous month.


During this period, the market share for Japanese cars was 29.3%.


Overseas exports of some automakers have not been largely affected. Brilliance Auto gained big overseas orders last year, and has steady sales channels and prices that have been accepted in overseas areas. Ambitious Brilliance even means to attend the 2009 Detroit Auto Show. Now it is working to get local accreditations to prepare it for the entry into the US market. “If Brilliance automobiles can enter the US market, it will not only improve the company’s overseas reputation, but also help to promote domestic sales,” a company’s spokesman claims.


In the first half of 2007, Chery’s automobile exports reached 83,000 and continued to hold its No.1 ranking in China. Chery hopes that the strong performance of domestic brands in overseas markets will stimulate the domestic market.


Such hopes may be overly optimistic. The market share decline of these brands is due to a number of reasons, the most important being the abandoning of independent R&D and over-concentration on short-term interests. Domestic automakers commonly use a large amount of components made by foreign-invested producers. This mode of operation puts a damper on their future.


As yet no Chinese automaker has been able to mass produce automatic gearboxes. Some automakers have even abandoned independent R&D in this area, and hope to overtake multinational enterprises by directly transferring to the development of electric cars or new energy source automobiles. All domestic automakers now have to buy gearboxes from foreign producers.


Although every domestic automaker claims it carries on engine research, a key technology, in fact, of the over 100 domestic carmakers only seven get their engines from inside the company or the company group as multinational companies in Europe, US, and Japan do. Among the rest, 35 purchase engines from both inside and outside the company, while nearly 60 source from outside the company. Even large domestic makers such as Chery and Geely source engines from other companies, as it saves them time and money. Chery’s ACTECO engine is considered to be another form of outsourcing, and is still some distance away from a viable technology. Geely’s “reverse development” is regarded as merely another form of technology purchase.


Domestic automakers have also pursued rapid development by making use of overseas companies’ design and services, and China’s car component industry has been built by foreign-invested automakers. Even as the domestic brands’ market share inches towards 30%, they still face a lack of technology for key components.


Domestic automakers began mass-producing cars in 2000 or so, and gained the power in the market by making full use of the integration of the global industrial structure. But this model, depending on outsourcing and integration, can’t support enterprises for long.

http://www.chinastakes.com/story.aspx?id=615
 

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Its only time before they will flood the markets here in North America.

Kind of like Boeing trying to keep competition like Airbus out until the Canadian Airbus affair rolled over and now Boeing has competition with airliners in North America.

Chinese automakers face many road blocks here by auto unions, political pressures, DOT etc... that don't want Chinese cars into North American markets. If their cars can make it into Italy, Germany and Russia that says alot and backs up my theory. Car makers like Chyrsler want to rebadge Chery A1 as one of theirs so they still can have their brand image and make huge amounts of profits for doing virtually nothing !

Greed is what is going to destroy the North American economy !
 

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The Chinese needs to learn from the japanese. Improve build quality and innovate design. Yes, you can be "inspired" by other cars' design, but sure not hell copy the whole damn thing whole, without changing anything! In addition, China's reputation for cheating consumers (like the recent tainted milk scandal), is not doing them and favors. My verdict, people will never learn to accept chinese brand so long as all these things keeps happening and scandals about shoddy product quality keeps hitting the global headlines.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
You are right, even now the mainlanders now lost all faith in Chinese brands, many Chinese on Chinese forums now say they don't know if they can still trust national brands anymore after the milk scandal.
 

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EdT said:
Its only time before they will flood the markets here in North America.
Do they really need to? Sure, they want to, as it is the world's largest car market, but what about after 2015 or 2020? Why not fight it out in China for what will be the world's largest car market very soon? Why spend the resources on NA when you can save for a larger slice of pie at home, ya know?

EdT said:
Greed is what is going to destroy the North American economy !
Agreed. However, its a world economy now.....


I think they need to bring motorcycles here first. That's how Suzuki, Honda and some of the others did it. A good way to get your name out there, without demanding people pay out a lot of their money for a car with an unknown name.
 

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I agree with all the comments above. I just wanna ask, why China is well known for its low quality product?

I have seen some china made car, exterior it looks great but the quality is not there... that's all i have to say


:nod:
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 · (Edited)
Hello there, first of all Welcome to CCF, nice to see you contribute to the forum..., I saw your introduction, you're from India, nice :)

But

From what I see, Indian cars are not that bright either, I have seen a few pictures of the Tata cars like the Tata Indica, and the interior looks very......

I know the two biggest Indian cars brand is Tata and Mahindra but their products are not competitive at all in foreign markets, they are doing very badly in places such as South Africa even against Chinese noobs like GWM and Cherys and those two just recently came to South Africa (Including analysis report from South African motor experts) . And from what I heard is that Tata is no longer in the Caribbean Island, where they got a bad reputation and was forced to withdraw.

I don't intend to put down Indian cars or say anything but from what I see is that Tata and Mahindra are very old age but they cannot even compete on the world stage yet. But if one looks at Chery on the other hand, they are just 10 years-old but already expand in numerous country, seriously I am not hyping on Chery or Chinese cars, they really have a lot of shortcommings ....

But when I draw some comparisons between a 48 years-old Tata Motors and a 10 years-old Chery Automobile and their achievements, I am usually lost in confusions. How can a 10 years old company is already moving on to hybrid cars, new alternative fuel vehicles, overseas factories expansion one after another and sales, dealer networks expanding , whereas the old age 48 years old company even had the mind to develop the world's cheapest car , and with a record of plummeting sales abroad, and I do not want to go into Mahindra a 63 years old company, their record looks even gloomier.

But I really admit the reputation of Chinese products, it is a a general perception that we cannot deny.
 

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Most American's would buy Chinese cars if the price was significantly below that of most North American brands. But if they think that Americans will pay the same price for a low quality Chinese car as they will an American made car they are wrong. The main selling point of the Chinese made cars is the low cost.

If they try to enter the American market with jacked up prices they will crash burn and fail
 

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I'll second that emotion, Zoned87. The Chinese carmakers need to really test, test, fix, test, fix, test and re-test and then think about exporting to the U.S. As the U.S. dollar falls in value, Americans are going to consider compact and sub-compacts vehicles again like they have in the past.

If they see a Chinese-made car they like, they'll think about buying. But if it's engine is gutless or the thing handles like a kid's homemade go-cart, they're not going to be outlaying cash for it. Cash that is in shorter and shorter supply. It's really a time for the Chinese to refine their first product to market in the U.S. I'm saying there is a market, but put out an unbeatable product(or one that is at least trying to be unbeatable)first. It will go a lot better.

Most of us still remember Hyundai's horrible Canadian-built Excels, and Hyundai is just pulling out of that judging in the past 3-5 years. Hyundai and Kia have put out solid product since about 2001. And it is product that is back by an industry-leading 10 year and 100,000 mile Long Haul Warranty in the U.S. Just bring a strong product that is lower-priced than the South Koreans, Japanese, German and American product, and there will be serious money to be made. If you want to price them the same, be prepared for a very tough go of it selling your cars.

Nationalism is one thing in car company selections, but, and it's a big butt, if the product is fantastic and it costs less, and it is backed by a superior Warranty, those people will open their pocketbooks. But if they do and they get sorely burned, there's a good chance you've lost them for life. And the people will talk badly about any product coming out of that country, too, for a long time. Don't totally agree with that type of thing, but, it would be sticking one's head in the sand if they didn't know this sort of thing up front.
 

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I think something like the Lifan 520 would sell well in the United States right now, provided they put in automatic transmissions.
 

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Honestly, let us not compare with the indian car companies. India make horrible cars and thats no denying...shoddy work, poor design and indian car manufactures target a different market of poorer indians. I think what the chinese companies should do is to look at people better than them. Look forward and not backward. Compare themselves against the koreans. Learn from their lessons. No doubt i agree, car companies usually copy other famous brands in their formative years 1-3 years, but why is it, I still see copying in much brands...and strangely, china car companies never provide a warranty. Sometimes, it makes me stop to wonder why....
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
uh Chery cars in some countries already provide warranty, either mileage or years. Chery offers warranty in Malaysia.

Chery does not offer warranty in Singapore ?
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I did not mean to badmouth or compare Indian cars to Chinese cars. I know that Chinese makers still have a lot to learn. But at least people like Chery, BYD, Geely and Lifan are making progress in new designs, technology and safety improvements. But there is no room for hype here.

What I don't understand is why the Chinese government allow so many small auto makers to sprout up like mushrooms these days.
 

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SadRabbit said:
Honestly, let us not compare with the indian car companies. India make horrible cars and thats no denying...shoddy work, poor design and indian car manufactures target a different market of poorer indians. I think what the chinese companies should do is to look at people better than them. Look forward and not backward. Compare themselves against the koreans. Learn from their lessons. No doubt i agree, car companies usually copy other famous brands in their formative years 1-3 years, but why is it, I still see copying in much brands...and strangely, china car companies never provide a warranty. Sometimes, it makes me stop to wonder why....
every producer in china usually over 2 year od 50000 km warranty
 

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If Chinese companies were smart they would copy the engine and transmission designs from defunct American car companies like Studebaker and AMC. Since those companies no longer exist the chances of being sued for copyright infringement is extremely low.
 

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I guess a lot of people have different standards, as most American's like to buy GMC trucks and Japanese manufacture cars, or is it guilty by reputation that others wont buy china made cars..

my own opinion.. LOLZ...:D
 

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I think the Geely will sell well in places like NZ that need cheap cars as their wages are not high.
Remember hyundai took a long time to get accepted but is doing well now,America needs to go away from V8s and move to fuel efficient cars and with the ecomomic crash cheap china cars will sell.
 

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you'll find that even hyundai and kia are not that well accepted in the west

china are behind the 8 ball in that 'made in china' means shoddy especially with the lead paint and melamine scandals

there's already a lot of chinese brand oil filters, spark plugs and tyres and they are generally shit

they also need to change names - come up with a name that westerns will accept

none of the brands have what i would call names that are nice sounding to 'western ears'

ling long tyres? gonow? chery? fuqi?

I think they need to go with a Saturn or Eagle or some manufacturered stuff like Scion, Lexus, Infiniti.

At this point I would say it's better to concentrate on licensing engine technology. I feel there's not a huge way to go with internal combustion engines. Get some Europeans to design the body and suspension and make them safe. We will come back in 5 yrs and I guarantee this forum will be busy busy because the Chinese car will be common everywhere.

I'll give you an example. I would probably have no issue with buying a GWM Wingle type truck.

The Isuzu is only 2 or 3 stars. The Chinese one is the same. The Chinese need to use a modern DOHC direct injection turbo diesel engine.

Currently the Isuzu is $30,000 USD where I am with the 4wd dual cab body.

If GWM can make one for HALF the money with a comparable engine, why buy Isuzu?

They need to change the name. Wingle? What the hell? I know in the Chinese way "Winged Eagle" makes sense?

It makes zero sense in English. Is there an eagle without wings?

Name it the GWM Grand Tiger doesn't sound too bad. It is CLEAR though the Chinese need to hire Western consultants at pretty much every stage to make sure everything is palatable to Westerners.
 
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