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To answer your question, after collecting generally positive feedback from H3 and H5 owners for over a year, I decided to buy one. But since I want a 2012 model, and the product launch has been unexplicably delayed from September until some unknown future date (my dealer said it might even now be after next January), I have been unable to buy my new 2012 H5 (Euro model). I want to try a 4wd H5 with the 2.0VGT and Hyundai 5-speed automatic. If you read my posts, I have explained that I encountered driveability problems with this model after its introduction this year, as well as the 6-speed manual.

Since the latest 2.0VGT/automatic-equipped H5s I've test driven have improved driveability, but the 6-speeds still don't, plus considering the stop-and-go traffic here during rush hour, I'm planning to buy an automatic. But, I want the enhancements that the 2012 model will offer.

In July, I was told GW would be taking orders in September and I could have the truck in 30 days. Now, everything has changed and the dealer can't tell me anything definite. GW is certainly not inspiring confidence in me about their sales marketing and management. There are days when I consider buying a 2011 H3 with the 2.5TCi, because it's by far the best looking model (due to the intercooler hood scoop), it's performance is far superior to the 2.0VGT, and it has a Bosch fuel system with a fuel heater (I live in northern China).

So, I'm waiting on GW to get their act together. I can only guess that the 2012 models have problems that have not yet been addressed, and as a result, production could not begin in September as originally planned.
 

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Chinesecars,
You are right. Something is up with delivery of H5. I was told by local dealer that first H5 auto was going to arrive last weekend, now they tell me to keep checking... and this one apparently was an actual order delivery that they would let me test drive to get an idea of the vehicle... glad I am not the actual owner waiting for this one... any updates on your side? I assume they don't make the H3 with 2.5 tci automatic do they?
 

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To answer your question, after collecting generally positive feedback from H3 and H5 owners for over a year, I decided to buy one. But since I want a 2012 model, and the product launch has been unexplicably delayed from September until some unknown future date (my dealer said it might even now be after next January), I have been unable to buy my new 2012 H5 (Euro model). I want to try a 4wd H5 with the 2.0VGT and Hyundai 5-speed automatic. If you read my posts, I have explained that I encountered driveability problems with this model after its introduction this year, as well as the 6-speed manual.

Since the latest 2.0VGT/automatic-equipped H5s I've test driven have improved driveability, but the 6-speeds still don't, plus considering the stop-and-go traffic here during rush hour, I'm planning to buy an automatic. But, I want the enhancements that the 2012 model will offer.

In July, I was told GW would be taking orders in September and I could have the truck in 30 days. Now, everything has changed and the dealer can't tell me anything definite. GW is certainly not inspiring confidence in me about their sales marketing and management. There are days when I consider buying a 2011 H3 with the 2.5TCi, because it's by far the best looking model (due to the intercooler hood scoop), it's performance is far superior to the 2.0VGT, and it has a Bosch fuel system with a fuel heater (I live in northern China).

So, I'm waiting on GW to get their act together. I can only guess that the 2012 models have problems that have not yet been addressed, and as a result, production could not begin in September as originally planned.
hi
before you plan to buy a h5
please check this forum which is chinese
http://club.autohome.com.cn/bbs/forum-c-2027-1.html
and see how many people have problems who have buyed h5 2.0t
you will get the answer this company there no standisation
each lot of production differs from each other be very care full
:confused:
 

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No, the H3 2.0/2.4 gasoline and 2.5TCi diesel are not available with the Hundai 5-speed automatic. Wouldn't the 2.5TCi and the 5-speed automatic be a great combination!

It seems that GW has no true R&D capability. They have to contract out all of their development. That's why the Kia 2.0VGT + Hyundai auto isn't much changed from when Kia produced it. GW has no ability to make signifcant changes. The "B" version with the Bosch fuel system was reworked by Bosch, because GW couldn't possibly do it.

Realistically, GW is just a factory, because they can't actually design anything (good) by themselves (The H3/H5 came Isuzu - the Axiom).

If they could actually design cars and SUVs, the 5-speed automatic transmission would be available with all available engines (the normal way a global carmaker would do it).
 

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You are right, the 2.5TCi and the 5-speed automatic be the best Hover combo since the 2.0VGT is not a finished product based on some severe issues they got, which is very sad... How reliable is the manual transmission on the 2.5TCi?
Specially the 4X4 version on the SUV?
 

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No, the H3 2.0/2.4 gasoline and 2.5TCi diesel are not available with the Hundai 5-speed automatic. Wouldn't the 2.5TCi and the 5-speed automatic be a great combination!

It seems that GW has no true R&D capability. They have to contract out all of their development. That's why the Kia 2.0VGT + Hyundai auto isn't much changed from when Kia produced it. GW has no ability to make signifcant changes. The "B" version with the Bosch fuel system was reworked by Bosch, because GW couldn't possibly do it.

Realistically, GW is just a factory, because they can't actually design anything (good) by themselves (The H3/H5 came Isuzu - the Axiom).

If they could actually design cars and SUVs, the 5-speed automatic transmission would be available with all available engines (the normal way a global carmaker would do it).
hi
if somebody out sources his development in 2011 is normal
my only worry them cannot assemble the car in normal manner
you saying for a automatic gear box for 2.5 tcdi engine do you expect them spend millions of rmb in making a different mould for this engine impossible
:D
i mean look the kia engine with borg and wagner turbo is fanastatic but
putting a gear box for 200nm in a car which can give 400nm torque is simply not acceptable:lol:
narry
 

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Discussion Starter · #228 ·
No, the H3 2.0/2.4 gasoline and 2.5TCi diesel are not available with the Hundai 5-speed automatic. Wouldn't the 2.5TCi and the 5-speed automatic be a great combination!

It seems that GW has no true R&D capability. They have to contract out all of their development. That's why the Kia 2.0VGT + Hyundai auto isn't much changed from when Kia produced it. GW has no ability to make signifcant changes. The "B" version with the Bosch fuel system was reworked by Bosch, because GW couldn't possibly do it.

Realistically, GW is just a factory, because they can't actually design anything (good) by themselves (The H3/H5 came Isuzu - the Axiom).

If they could actually design cars and SUVs, the 5-speed automatic transmission would be available with all available engines (the normal way a global carmaker would do it).
i think you are way wrong....great wall have really modern R&D department, with over 80% with master degree who are highly educated, factory tour is free, i think you should arrange it :D, also they invest millions of dollars in it


http://www.cardesignnews.com/site/designers/whos_where/display/store4/item233307/
here is a new designer from great wall, andreas deufel, do you know which models he make? mercedes ml, mercedes gl, audi a4, mercedes e class, coupe models and so on, now you want to told to us all that great wall don't have their own center for design vehicles??? this gentleman here is most respective in automobile world

great wall had enormous grow from 2007, in only 5 years company had so much improvements that i simply can't write you down how that things it changed there, there is still space for improvements but great wall is very young brand in car industry and today's customers expectations are very high, of course all of them want to have luxury car for best possible price which is not possible,i also see that you also search and write so much about hover,but you don't own the car,forget any other people and those who are writing everything,great wall sold almost 400.000 cars, that mean 400.000 different clients and customer habits,do you think that everybody know how to maintenance the car properly?

i will tell to you funny story, before 3 years ago customer came to me and he was very angry, he came in my office and throw keys directly to my face, even hit me, i was shock and ask him what is the problem? he told to me that all power windows don't work and that he can't open doors from inside, u know what was the problem? he press the child lock button and safety button for windows that only you as a driver can operate with it,after i show him what did he done...he was embarrassed, now every time when he came to me i got a small gift from him

second customer when to tire shop to buy new off road tires and people there installed tires wrong, they put tires in opposite rotation, but my customer didn't know why car didn't go well and simply drive it like that, after almost 10.000 km tire change he came to us because some bearing inside wheel broke and we see this, he could not believe that this happens to him and i was also shocked that somebody didn't notice for 10.000 km that there is something wrong with the car and tires
 

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The manual 5-speed behind the 2.5TCi appears to be reliable, based on the comments I've gotten over the last 3 years from many Chinese owners. But, the shift quality is not up to modern standards. First and second gear are very "notchy". It gets a little better with age but there clearly is a synchronizer design problem. Frankly, the 2.5TCi needs a new modern 5 or 6-speed manual transmision.

Narry, it doesn't cost "millions of rmb" to design another flywheel housing that would allow the Hyundai 5-speed automatic transmission to mount behind the 2.5TCi. For any global car company, this is a very small and simple matter. The problem for GW is, they don't even have this basic R&D capability.

Why does the 2.0VGT + Hyundai 5-speed auto have the Borg-Warner TOD 4wd system? Because that is the same drivetrain that Kia had. GW is forced to continue with exactly what Kia was building because they have no self ability to make any siginicant changes. They bought the drivetrain "off the shelf" from Kia.

Micodelija, you say that GW actually has a modern R&D capability. Well, when will they start showing it? I'm not stopping them. They can begin today. That would be great. The real truth is, they have to pay outside companies to do all their serious R&D for them.

For example, what R&D was done by GW for the H3/H5? They bought the truck design from Isuzu (the Axiom). They buy the gas engines from Mitsubishi. GW acquired the turbocharged 2.8L 4JB1 engine design from Isuzu. Later they paid Bosch to update it, resulting in the higher performance 2.5TCi. Then for the H5, they bought the whole diesel powertrain package from Kia, Hyundai and Borg-Warner. What did GW engineer? Nothing.

I don't care about free factory tours. I don't care if they employ one expat designer (if he was really good, he'd be at a global carmaker making the big money). I only care about the end result.
 

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Discussion Starter · #230 ·
The manual 5-speed behind the 2.5TCi appears to be reliable, based on the comments I've gotten over the last 3 years from many Chinese owners. But, the shift quality is not up to modern standards. First and second gear are very "notchy". It gets a little better with age but there clearly is a synchronizer design problem. Frankly, the 2.5TCi needs a new modern 5 or 6-speed manual transmision.

Narry, it doesn't cost "millions of rmb" to design another flywheel housing that would allow the Hyundai 5-speed automatic transmission to mount behind the 2.5TCi. For any global car company, this is a very small and simple matter. The problem for GW is, they don't even have this basic R&D capability.

Why does the 2.0VGT + Hyundai 5-speed auto have the Borg-Warner TOD 4wd system? Because that is the same drivetrain that Kia had. GW is forced to continue with exactly what Kia was building because they have no self ability to make any siginicant changes. They bought the drivetrain "off the shelf" from Kia.

Micodelija, you say that GW actually has a modern R&D capability. Well, when will they start showing it? I'm not stopping them. They can begin today. That would be great. The real truth is, they have to pay outside companies to do all their serious R&D for them.

For example, what R&D was done by GW for the H3/H5? They bought the truck design from Isuzu (the Axiom). They buy the gas engines from Mitsubishi. They bought the 2.5TCi from Nissan (originally was 2.8L) and paid Bosch to update it. Then for the H5, they bought the whole diesel powertrain package from Kia, Hyundai and Borg-Warner. What did GW engineer? Nothing.

I don't care about free factory tours. I don't care if they employ one expat designer (if he was really good, he'd be at a global carmaker making the big money). I only care about the end result.
as i told you before, great wall is very young brand, i don't know if you are informed but do you know how expensive is to make their own engine, gearboxes, car design and all other things?? this is million dollars talk, also almost every other car in china had mitsubishi engine, i know several brand which are using identical engine, all depends who had joint venture, some of them use toyota 4y engine, plenty of them use mitsubishi engine, isuzu 4jb1 engine, nissan yd32 engine and other, every suv which i check in china had some of those engines, ok some of brands try to make their own engine, but simply there is no need for that, why to spend 200 million dollars for engine development while you can buy finished engine for much lower amount? great wall had it own engine base and all of engines their produce by their own, even this diesel one, exploring and engineering take time and lot of money, it can't be done in one or two year, it must be planed for several years in future and again while you make there is always somebody who is offering more modern, this is why is best simply to buy finished technology and update it, great wall will still need almost 5 or 10 years to came between other car makers, but they are doing good and we must have thrust in brand and product, personally i drive great wall cars for 5 years now, from 2007, every car is better and better and i hope that all future cars will still be excitement to me what i want to drive them

just this what you write is modern customers, we all want the best quality, but can you afford it? let be clear here...hover price is affordable car in china, how much is price of hover in china? 17000 usd? for that price hover offer quite good price and quality ratio, simply if you want supreme quality, it cost much much more, several time more
 

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mico,
I get your point, but how much would it be to a third party to have a way to hookup the automatic tranny to the 2.5tci which is much better/reliable than new 2.0VGT? That would not be millions and would create an option for best Hover combo imho...
 

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Discussion Starter · #232 ·
mico,
I get your point, but how much would it be to a third party to have a way to hookup the automatic tranny to the 2.5tci which is much better/reliable than new 2.0VGT? That would not be millions and would create an option for best Hover combo imho...
now we got other question...why to invest in old model??? great wall just recently present new hover h6 version and very soon h5 will be out of production,hover h5(cc6461) is just refresh and updated version of basic hover(cc6460) also there will be several new suv models in offer

i had chance to test new hover h6, difference is huge! especially driving effort, comfort, inner quality, decoration, also it's almost 400 kg lighter then hover h5, hover h6 is future of great wall
 

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mico,
So you are implying that by moving to new technology like the H6, great wall wouldn't have to research current H5 issues with the 2.0 VGT engine like leaking antifreeze, turbo oil leaks, or the noisy manual transmissions?

H6 doesn't look like a matching successor SUV to H3 or H5, is a vehicle for other applications. When that Great Wall plan to stop producing the reliable 2.5tci diesel engine? Because I am shy of buying 2.0 diesel and don't care for H6. What is the latest model year for H3/H5 with 2.5tci 4X4? Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #234 ·
mico,
So you are implying that by moving to new technology like the H6, great wall wouldn't have to research current H5 issues with the 2.0 VGT engine like leaking antifreeze, turbo oil leaks, or the noisy manual transmissions?

H6 doesn't look like a matching successor SUV to H3 or H5, is a vehicle for other applications. When that Great Wall plan to stop producing the reliable 2.5tci diesel engine? Because I am shy of buying 2.0 diesel and don't care for H6. What is the latest model year for H3/H5 with 2.5tci 4X4? Thanks!
no, you don't understand, great wall have good quality and reliable products, also all of them are covered by warranty, there is no chance that you will get a car which didn't pass company inspection and which isn't safe for ride, also all vehicles have passed china quality inspection test and i really doubt that hover will be best selling chinese suv is quality isn't good, maybe you read of forum experience from couple of customers who had bad luck or something, but one more time it depend how they maintenance their cars, also unsatisfied people always will be, you can expect that you sold 100.000 cars and that all will be without any problem, those what you written are problems so small that it can be solved in 10 minutes service

by my opinion all depends what customers expect from the car, i had also a customer which return a car to me, he is noisy, spend lot of fuel, he don't like quality...bla bla bla-yada yada yada, i sold it to other customer and he is apsoulutley delighted with the car and now driving it for 4 years, same car, two different customers feedback

also if any model of car, not just great wall, now i talk about any brand, usually throe marketing research and customer feedback companies upgrade their products if something is wrong, usually it's done throe recall system or simply during regular service check, my friend had nissan navara model and he had a problem with airbag module, nissan send to his home invitation that he came with the car to service inspection and for free they put in car new part, which was upgraded and made by nissan quality standard, when i had fiat punto it was identical, also when great wall send to me notice about some quality checking, we contact our customers and on regular service replace the parts which are on list for replace or other, for now we had only two such repairs
 

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I do understand, I come from a log family of mechanics, and let me tell you, many users of the new "green" and "quiet" 2.0 VGT diesel engines are experiencing leaking antifreeze from cylinder heads, oil leaks from the turbo, and noise/clutch issues from transmission... to name a few critical problems.

Now tell me how you think those are little issues you can fix in 10 minutes. No way. I worked as a mechanic and I know better... I would never touch a new engine sent to the market with those issues reported. This need addressing from Great Wall, not just making a less torqued "B" version to reduce transmission issues.... That is to me is just a patch, not a solution. Not to mention the pending unsolved problems. The hard, responsible way is to recall those engines and fix whatever is wrong with them. The easy way is to keep pushing new models and to quit researching previous failures...
 

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Great Wall may want to just look ahead and sort of "force" a person with knowledge of these problems, like yourself, to buy the newer brand that doesn't have this problem. Sounds coarse, but fixing these problems is considerably expensive. I remember Mr.Lee Iacocca of Ford Motor Company, when people were bitching about the Ford Pinto's safety problem of exploding ghastly tank when it was being hit from behind, say simply "...well, they should trade up, then."

Honestly, straight out of the mouth of Lee Iacocca, the father of the Mustang. Imagine that.
 

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Rally,
Sadly true. This kind of behavior has been demonstrated by automakers many times before...
It makes the only smart option, to wait for 2 or more years on any late model that comes out
before it can be trusted to buy as reliable. Unfortunately, buying the "next year model" seems
nothing but risky business otherwise. Even with warranty on your side, you cant trust a car...
 

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Discussion Starter · #238 ·
simply different opinions :D
diesel hover...please don't told to me about mechanic :D, i really don't want to discuss about that, simply let we look at sales results of great wall, this are best parameters is quality of car is good or bad, as i know great wall is top selling suv in china, when he will became worst selling suv then i will be worried, also there will be always satisfied and unsatisfied clients, if you are all so unsatisfied that gentelman from ford say good...buy another car

i also buy a vw passat several years ago as all my friends told to me that car is good, i wasn't happy with it, sold it and buy fiat, fiat was good car, drive it for 4 years and buy a new one, then i drive a new model for 4 years again and one more time i replace it with new one, why to bother with the car if you don't have thrust in it from the start??? also because of my bad experience with vw i will not say that vw make bad cars, after all there are top world leader car manifacture, but simply i will never like them any more, but identical you will hear from some other customers who will told to you that fiat make bad cars and vw are top, simply....different customers, different customer feedback, different opinions

to me...most important is that my hover 5 is doing well, already got 45.000 km with it without any problems :thumb:
 

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mico,
Eventually sales to unsatisfied customers will hit your optimistic numbers, just as you moved from one brand to another, this is no good for GW.
Maybe I am a smart buyer who know better... but you can't fool people forever... specially when you have domestic market unhappy :)

Anyways, talking about reliable diesel Hover now, what should I expect to pay average for new H3 2.5tci version with sunroof?
Anyone has estimate? Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter · #240 ·
mico,
Eventually sales to unsatisfied customers will hit your optimistic numbers, just as you moved from one brand to another, this is no good for GW.
Maybe I am a smart buyer who know better... but you can't fool people forever... specially when you have domestic market unhappy :)

Anyways, talking about reliable diesel Hover now, what should I expect to pay average for new H3 2.5tci version with sunroof?
Anyone has estimate? Thanks!
so every year great wall have 80.000 fools which are buying hover? :D great conclusion :eek:, if hover quality was bad, people will not buy it, hover is best selling suv for several years now, of course there is happy and unhappy customers, but what can you do there? fight against wind? you can give to somebody a new mercedes and he will be unhappy with it, all depend on clients habits and his character, nobody will write to me that great wall making bad quality cars, no way....especially those who don't have it while i am driving them for 5 years now, great wall always upgrade their quality and market results show us that they are doing well, if great wall vehicles where bad, people will not buy it and they will not be best selling suv and pick up makers for several years on chinese market

personaly i also don't like when people write something which don't have a model of car for which they are writing about, you and chinese cars are users like that,new members which present like you want to buy a car...and then write bad about it :D, haha, firstly buy a car and then give your opinion on it, not that i have read, i have sow, i have hear bla bla bla, also it's funny how you are only active on this topics, i think administrators have some work here

by that i finish all my discussions and kindly ask that admins take care about this topic
 
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